What if the Ottomans never rose to power?

Jan 2019
5
Bulgaria
#1
What if the Ottomans never rose to power?

This is a question I often ask myself and I always find a diferent answer. If you see the stages of their expansion, you can clearly understand that the subjugation of the Balkans was one of their most important early conquests, but what if it failed? What if the Ottomans were defeated in those early days by the Byzantine empire and subjugated due to weak leadership? What if another force United the Balkans?

I would gladly hear all your thoughts.
 
Jan 2019
5
Bulgaria
#3
Byzantines would be a major power but there would be conflicts with the Catholic powers. The Balkans are still Balkanized to an extent. Arabs dominate the Sunni sector while Iranians dominate Shia. Islam could look a bit different. Middle ages would take a different course.
Well yeah I do agree on the Islam point. Probably regions like Albania, Sandjak and Dobrugea would have far smaller muslim communities, or maybe even none. While I do think that the Byzantine empire would had fallen eventually. Maybe we could see a far stronger Hungary or Austria, holding the region in their "pockets" and competing with other outside powers, like a early Russia and diferent Italian states for it.
 
Likes: Talbot Vilna
Sep 2017
690
United States
#6
There's no way to know. Too many factors. Why don't they rise? What happens to them? Do they do anything or are they ripped from existence?

Then, in turn, there's no way to know what happens to the Byzantines. Do they persist? Does someone else conquer them? What kind of great people arise from these events?

I think if you asked a Roman in the 1st Century A.D. where Italia would be in 1,900 years, I don't think they'd tell you all about Mussolini and the Kingdom of Italy.
 
Apr 2017
1,086
U.S.A.
#7
They would need to have a much larger population in order to be comparable to Western Europe, though.
If they were independent states rather than vassals, their populations may have boomed. The Serbs often boast they would be a country like France if it weren't for the Ottomans (debatable). Also notable is the lower population density of eastern Europe to the west, this could have changed if the east was more prosperous.
 
Likes: Talbot Vilna
Oct 2018
62
Bangalore,India
#8
Well yeah I do agree on the Islam point. Probably regions like Albania, Sandjak and Dobrugea would have far smaller muslim communities, or maybe even none. While I do think that the Byzantine empire would had fallen eventually. Maybe we could see a far stronger Hungary or Austria, holding the region in their "pockets" and competing with other outside powers, like a early Russia and diferent Italian states for it.
Probably the Byzantine Empire would be replaced by a larger Hungary or the HRE while Slavic and Greek Minorities are spread over Balkans and Anatolia.
 
Jan 2019
5
Bulgaria
#9
There's no way to know. Too many factors. Why don't they rise? What happens to them? Do they do anything or are they ripped from existence?

Then, in turn, there's no way to know what happens to the Byzantines. Do they persist? Does someone else conquer them? What kind of great people arise from these events?

I think if you asked a Roman in the 1st Century A.D. where Italia would be in 1,900 years, I don't think they'd tell you all about Mussolini and the Kingdom of Italy.
Well I am not asking or precise results of it, only ideas of what could had happen.
If you look at the ottoman conquest of the Balkans you can clearly see that in a few moments they could had been stoped. In 1353 they captured Tzimpe and in 1356 Callipolis (Galipoli) which were their first holdings in Europe. What if the Byzantine manager to hold them of? Plus in 1370 the Ottomans faces a united force of several Slavic lords. They did won the battle, but what if they didn't? Many other Slavic rulers did join the ottoman cause, like Marko of Skopje, Ivan Šišman of Bulgaria (for a short period) and others. What if they lords didn't do that and stood as a united force?

As I said am not asking for a precise depiction of the future, just for a simple guess of what could had followed.
 
Sep 2017
690
United States
#10
Well I am not asking or precise results of it, only ideas of what could had happen.
If you look at the ottoman conquest of the Balkans you can clearly see that in a few moments they could had been stoped. In 1353 they captured Tzimpe and in 1356 Callipolis (Galipoli) which were their first holdings in Europe. What if the Byzantine manager to hold them of? Plus in 1370 the Ottomans faces a united force of several Slavic lords. They did won the battle, but what if they didn't? Many other Slavic rulers did join the ottoman cause, like Marko of Skopje, Ivan Šišman of Bulgaria (for a short period) and others. What if they lords didn't do that and stood as a united force?

As I said am not asking for a precise depiction of the future, just for a simple guess of what could had followed.
Well, going as far as we can go with it, I can assume then that the Ottomans never grow past a regional power.

The Byzantines are still going to struggle, but may stabilize. However, if they last until the colonial period, like Venice, they'd probably hit a fairly sharp decline.