What if 'The Second Miracle of the House of Brandenburg' never happened?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#31
Hard to say but without Prussia as an ally i'd imagine Russia would lose to the Austro-Ottomans.
Would any Russian territory be lost?

No, they would be at war with them over ottoman territory. As I said Frederick the great is the one who averted this.
Ah; got it!

BTW, why didn't Russia and Austria still go to war with each other over the fate of the Ottoman Empire even after the partitions of Poland?

No actually. River travel was problematic in itself. Some river baron could throw some chains across and deny you access if you didn't pay whatever he felt like demanding. This is why Austria didn't exploit its river connections to the Baltic and black sea. Hostile states would block them. If you didn't have a land connection you had to be friendly or imposing to the connecting states.
I was talking about literally traveling by sea rather than by river here, though.

Which one?
This one:

Is a Fascist Russia likely to be an expansionist power or a status quo power?

Though you could also respond to the thread which involves a Russian abolition of the Pale of Settlement in the late 1800s. :)
 
Apr 2017
1,555
U.S.A.
#32
Would any Russian territory be lost?

Ah; got it!

BTW, why didn't Russia and Austria still go to war with each other over the fate of the Ottoman Empire even after the partitions of Poland?

I was talking about literally traveling by sea rather than by river here, though.

This one:

Is a Fascist Russia likely to be an expansionist power or a status quo power?

Though you could also respond to the thread which involves a Russian abolition of the Pale of Settlement in the late 1800s. :)
Maybe some border territory, the main aspect would be the denial of the Crimea to the Russians. This could also lead to an ottoman-Austrian alliance that would stifle Russian expansion.
The French Revolution happened.
Prussia couldn't access the Rhine territories by sea. Neither could many other hodgepodge states.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#33
Maybe some border territory, the main aspect would be the denial of the Crimea to the Russians. This could also lead to an ottoman-Austrian alliance that would stifle Russian expansion.
It's amazing that the Ottomans and Austrians were allies just 100 years after the Ottoman siege of Vienna!

The French Revolution happened.
And after 1815?

Prussia couldn't access the Rhine territories by sea. Neither could many other hodgepodge states.
Yes, but these territories were a relatively small part of Prussia, no?

Also, off-topic, but it's true that Prussia only reluctantly accepted the Rhineland in 1815, correct?
 
Apr 2017
1,555
U.S.A.
#34
It's amazing that the Ottomans and Austrians were allies just 100 years after the Ottoman siege of Vienna!

And after 1815?

Yes, but these territories were a relatively small part of Prussia, no?

Also, off-topic, but it's true that Prussia only reluctantly accepted the Rhineland in 1815, correct?
After the congress of Vienna there was an attempt to maintain the status quo in Europe and prevent any wars between major European powers. This was largely successful until after the 1848 revolutions. This is also partly why Europeans began to focus more on colonial expansion.

Small but important, the Rhennish territories were more developed and heavily industrialized. Prussia's acquisition of the Rhineland gave it the industrial might it needed to become a major power.

Not that I know of, it was some of the most valuable territory in Germany. They may have had some problems as the Rhineland is mostly catholic and had some French influence. But they left it semi-autonomous, so no problems to my knowledge.
 
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