What if there are two or three human species today?

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Oct 2015
1,196
California
Well I am not debating the Neanderthal inbreeding. But contrary of what you say it was in fact extremely rare. For the coexistence some millennia is nothing comparing to a species lifespan, so for me there is no reason than could get the other species to got extent. Environmental change don't explain it. The propagation of
Homo sapiens has a lot do with it.
I never said homo-sapien and neanderthal matings were common. What I said was there was more evidence of mating between the two than of systematic extermination by homo-sapiens as was suggested by another poster.
What I also said was that for the most part the two avoided each other more than likely. Since homo-sapien communities were larger and not isolated from each other, its no surprise that homo-sapiens would mate with other homo sapiens because that was who they were in contact with on a daily basis. This was especially true as the Neanderthal population dwindled being driven further away and neanderthals retreating into isolated clans that resorted to inbreeding for lack of contact with outsiders. As the neanderthal population became scare, naturally there would have been a lack of contact with homo-sapiens. But during instances when they did meet and interbred either through mutual mating or rape they did produce fertile babies and this is indicated by genetic evidence today.
 
Oct 2015
1,196
California
Neanderthal only give to non African a tiny amount of DNA which implies that the inbreeding was most of the time unsuccessful.[/QUOTE
You are confusing a lack of contact or desire as somehow evidence that the two attempted and failed to produce viable offspring.
Anyway tiny amount as it may be the evidence is still there that the offspring that neanderthals and homo-sapiens produced were fertile as indicated by the last 40,000 years of their descendants in Europe and Asia that still keep breeding!
 
May 2019
64
Afrique
I never said homo-sapien and neanderthal matings were common. What I said was there was more evidence of mating between the two than of systematic extermination by homo-sapiens as was suggested by another poster.
What I also said was that for the most part the two avoided each other more than likely. Since homo-sapien communities were larger and not isolated from each other, its no surprise that homo-sapiens would mate with other homo sapiens because that was who they were in contact with on a daily basis. This was especially true as the Neanderthal population dwindled being driven further away and neanderthals retreating into isolated clans that resorted to inbreeding for lack of contact with outsiders. As the neanderthal population became scare, naturally there would have been a lack of contact with homo-sapiens. But during instances when they did meet and interbred either through mutual mating or rape they did produce fertile babies and this is indicated by genetic evidence today.
We agree that the grow of Homo sapiens population lead to Neanderthal extinction. I clearly precise on my first post that Homo sapiens didn't have an intent to exterminate any species homo or not. Many species got extinct due to competition but there is no species that willingly look for another species extinction. I agree with you that some of those babies were but most of the time it seems they were not. The cohabitation of Neanderthal and sapiens was enough long to have much more hybrids, thus more DNA legacy. I will check it but it seems that it's all due to failure in the inbreeding most of the time unless some exceptions. But maybe you are right about them having too few contact with Homo sapiens.
 
Oct 2015
1,196
California
We agree that the grow of Homo sapiens population lead to Neanderthal extinction. I clearly precise on my first post that Homo sapiens didn't have an intent to exterminate any species homo or not. Many species got extinct due to competition but there is no species that willingly look for another species extinction. I agree with you that some of those babies were but most of the time it seems they were not. The cohabitation of Neanderthal and sapiens was enough long to have much more hybrids, thus more DNA legacy. I will check it but it seems that it's all due to failure in the inbreeding most of the time unless some exceptions. But maybe you are right about them having too few contact with Homo sapiens.
Can you name one genetic expert or anthropological research from an accredited source that backs up your claim that most of the attempts by Neanderthals and Homo-Sapiens to interbreed failed to produce viable offspring? You keep using the term failed as though you have evidence for it. The only source I found regarding your claim is from 2016 Humans and Neanderthals May Have Had Trouble Making Male Babies | Smart News | Smithsonian

I am wondering if there are any more recent research regarding that article.
 
Last edited:
May 2019
64
Afrique
Can you name one genetic expert or anthropological research from an accredited source that backs up your claim that most of the attempts by Neanderthals and Homo-Sapiens to interbreed failed to produce viable offspring? You keep using the term failed as though you have evidence for it. The only source I found regarding your claim is from 2016 Humans and Neanderthals May Have Had Trouble Making Male Babies | Smart News | Smithsonian

I am wondering if there are any more recent research regarding that article.
Björn Kurtén, make research about this guy. He make an hypothesis that Neanderthal disappear because they become infertile through time due to hybridation. Also they are clearly a different species for now there no debate about that. But the they say hybridation, not mixing which mean that they were not fertile most of the time if that's mixing.
 
Oct 2015
1,196
California
Björn Kurtén, make research about this guy. He make an hypothesis that Neanderthal disappear because they become infertile through time due to hybridation. Also they are clearly a different species for now there no debate about that. But the they say hybridation, not mixing which mean that they were not fertile most of the time if that's mixing.
I would have to agree that if interpecies mating were more common between the two then the percentage of Neanderthal DNA in most non-Subsaharan Africans today would be larger. Separate species yes, but just barely. I mean they weren't animals. You could reason with a Neanderthal, but you can't reason with a Chimpanzee. I believe they had the same capability for rational thought and abstract thinking and a spoken language. They cared for their wounded and nursed them back to health as indicated by severe imjuries that healed which can only be explained by the fact that someone took care of them. They buried their dead and laid flowers and trinkets around the grave indicating they must have believed in some kind of afterlife, basically everything that we think of as being unique to humans I believe Neanderthals had. Sure they resorted to cannibalism in times of food scarcity, but so did homo-sapiens. They may have looked different, they may have had a different culture and value systems from homo-sapiens but I believe if you could travel back in time take a neanderthal baby and take it back to the 21st century and raise it with modern values it will grow up to be just like anyone else.
 
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Ancientgeezer

Ad Honorem
Nov 2011
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The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
Understanding Interspecific Hybridity
Speciation is the process by which new species are formed. If, for example, a species is subdivided into two subpopulations that become geographically separated, then the two groups may accumulate biological differences that reduce hybrid fertility. A clear speciation event between Neanderthals and humans has not been documented to date, but Neanderthals seem to have accrued distinctive characteristics and features along the second half of the Middle Pleistocene (23).

Researchers have long wondered if Neanderthals were an entirely separate species. Recent DNA evidence (4) might suggest that they were not. However, even if Neanderthals were a separate species, speciation without loss of hybrid fertility is possible.

Hypothesis Journal » Neanderthal-human Hybrids
 
Oct 2015
1,196
California
Anyway the reason why I posted this thread is because I just found out through by 23 And Me genetic result that I have a high Neanderthal DNA variant in the 200s range.


Facial reconstruction of an early European Homo-Sapien.
neanzzzz.jpg


Side views of a neanderthal child and a modern homo sapien child. Can you imagine your children playing together? Even as children one can see how so much more robust Neanderthals were.
neanfff.jpg


Neanderthal girl
neanssss.jpg



How a Neanderthal might look in a suit if he were still around today.
hmspaa.jpg
 
Last edited:
May 2019
64
Afrique
Anyway the reason why I posted this thread is because I just found out through by 23 And Me genetic result that I have a high Neanderthal DNA variant in the 200s range.


Facial reconstruction of an early European Homo-Sapien.
View attachment 18986


Side views of a neanderthal child and a modern homo sapien child. Can you imagine your children playing together? Even as children one can see how so much more robust Neanderthals were.
View attachment 18985


Neanderthal girl
View attachment 18984



How a Neanderthal might look in a suit if he were still around today.
View attachment 18983
Well that's quite normal. Even non African have early human DNA we just didn't find it yet. Not Neanderthal but some early human non identify for now. Denisova mixing for the Oceanians if I am not wrong. In reality the reverse would be quite bizarre and questionable, like someone being 100 % Homo sapiens is unlikely to be found. And if they were still alive well it wouldn't change much for us. Like what they look like is not important we are already diverse. But early human might have different capacity compare to Homo sapiens(cognitive or physical abilities) but that don't have any impact in current Homo sapiens population. Unless proven those non Sapien DNA don't have huge impact comparing to our sapiens legacy. They may have impact on some allergy. But don't forget that human actually don't judge by appearance or ethnicity (species in this case) but of course they will be always some racists.
 
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