What if Western Europeans colonized Jerusalem/Israel after first crusade ?

Aug 2019
48
India

there was migration of Western Europeans into city itself and the city was divided into different quasars from Armenians, Franks, English, Germans, Syrian,Byzantine Christians etc. what if western Europeans did in America, promoted large scale migration into Palestine region and settled these lands with their own people ? can this multicultural Christian state with clear Western European Majority Demography survive ? Outremeria
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,886
Maybe. There would have had to be a much more radical demographic shift. The First Crusade had two parts, a military crusade, that arrived first and succeeded in occupying the land and the city, and behind it followed a major civilian crusade The People's Crusade. That failed. Those prospective civilian colonists were wiped out in transit through Anatolia. Had they arrived safely, a different dynamic might have been possible. It could have been a start.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,030

there was migration of Western Europeans into city itself and the city was divided into different quasars from Armenians, Franks, English, Germans, Syrian,Byzantine Christians etc. what if western Europeans did in America, promoted large scale migration into Palestine region and settled these lands with their own people ? can this multicultural Christian state with clear Western European Majority Demography survive ? Outremeria
how would it survive ? indigenous christian communities in the region barely made it to today (with the largest being in Egypt, but they are a mere 10% of the total population)..... Let us also not forget that the ottomans later made it all the way to Vienna.... a smallish christian state in Palestine could not have held its own against them....
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,722
SoCal
how would it survive ? indigenous christian communities in the region barely made it to today (with the largest being in Egypt, but they are a mere 10% of the total population)..... Let us also not forget that the ottomans later made it all the way to Vienna.... a smallish christian state in Palestine could not have held its own against them....
What you need to have a chance for long-term survival is no Hattin and/or a more successful 3rd Crusade and also no sacking of Constantinople by the Crusaders. That way, maybe the Crusader states can survive longer and maybe the Byzantines would have been more prepared for the Mongol and Turkic onslaught in the late 13th century and beyond.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,722
SoCal
Yes, you're correct, my mistake. Had the order been reversed, considering the military crusaders defeated the Seljuks, the People's Crusade might have survived and arrived.
You think that the People's Crusade could have defeated the Seljuk Turks?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,722
SoCal
What helped with European settlement in the Americas is that there was plenty of good, fertile, available land and also plenty of resources. This, combined with the technological advances of the Industrial Revolution, made large-scale European settlement in the Americas possible--especially in the northernmost and southernmost parts of the Americas, both of which received a lot of European (and later other) immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries. Industrialization could result in a large population in Palestine as well--as the success of the Zionist movement showed--but industrialization wouldn't actually come for another several centuries.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,030
What you need to have a chance for long-term survival is no Hattin and/or a more successful 3rd Crusade and also no sacking of Constantinople by the Crusaders. That way, maybe the Crusader states can survive longer and maybe the Byzantines would have been more prepared for the Mongol and Turkic onslaught in the late 13th century and beyond.
Yep... Basically you need Byzantium to survive and to hold on to part of the M/E.... (and obviously the ottomans not becoming a power)
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
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SoCal
Yep... Basically you need Byzantium to survive and to hold on to part of the M/E.... (and obviously the ottomans not becoming a power)
Yeah, you need to have the Byzantines survive and also have the Byzantines be on friendly terms with the Crusaders. Basically, you need the situation of 1180 to continue for centuries. As for the Ottomans, just as long as they remain in Central Asia or locked inside of the interior of Anatolia, they shouldn't pose much of a problem. I mean, the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum didn't pose much of a problem for the Byzantines even in the decades after 1204.