What if you became Fuhrer in June 1942?

Feb 2011
1,058
Scotland
#21
Depends on who Fuhrer2 is. If he's a Nazi, it's unlikely anyone will negotiate. USSR might just, apprehensive of the summer offensive.

Any other Fuhrer2 is likely to have an army background, otherwise the SS/Waffen SS could intervene effectively to keep the Nazis in power.

In that event, negotiations could well be put in hand. Fuhrer2 would wish to place blame for atrocities with the Nazis and try to avoid 'dishonour' to Country or Wehrmacht. But I can see no reason why sane and sober army command would wish to pursue a costly war against such odds, where they currently nevertheless hold a strong position.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,725
SoCal
#22
I think the best outcome you could hope for would be a cease fire or peace treaty. Surrender would mean repatriation, and Germany was already broke. Possibly hand back France, keep Poland, not sure about the low countries or North Africa.

Maybe sweeten the deal and offer to attack Italy lol
No way in Hell that the Allies are going to let you keep Poland.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,725
SoCal
#25
Well given the Soviets now own half of it. I might just get away with the deal. ;)
The Soviet part was mostly filled with Ukrainians and Belarusians; thus, the Soviets could at least claim that they were reunifying the Ukrainian and Belarusian peoples. Meanwhile, the German part was mostly filled with Poles; thus, the Germans won't even have the national reunification excuse.
 
Likes: Gvelion
Mar 2019
1,219
Kansas
#26
The Soviet part was mostly filled with Ukrainians and Belarusians; thus, the Soviets could at least claim that they were reunifying the Ukrainian and Belarusian peoples. Meanwhile, the German part was mostly filled with Poles; thus, the Germans won't even have the national reunification excuse.
Okay but you have dealt me a crap hand to play here. I got to try something :)
 
Likes: Futurist
Mar 2019
1,219
Kansas
#28
OK, but I'm simply saying that the Allies won't accept what you're offering unless they are extremely desperate.
Oh I get that, but as the newly installed Fuhrer I have to find an answer that is politically acceptable at home as much as it is to the Allies. At this point the Soviets are not really in the games. So it comes down to what we can do with the West. The US might fold pretty quick so they can concentrate on the Japanese. And the fall of Singapore is still a fresh wound in the side of the British empire, so if we guarantee French borders and the US lose interest they just might call it good.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,725
SoCal
#29
Oh I get that, but as the newly installed Fuhrer I have to find an answer that is politically acceptable at home as much as it is to the Allies. At this point the Soviets are not really in the games. So it comes down to what we can do with the West. The US might fold pretty quick so they can concentrate on the Japanese. And the fall of Singapore is still a fresh wound in the side of the British empire, so if we guarantee French borders and the US lose interest they just might call it good.
The Soviets were already in the war during this time, though.
 
Jul 2016
9,317
USA
#30
Well in spring of 1942 you can always say that it was a result of a few officials getting overenthusiastic in their carrying out of orders.
Einsatzgruppen and police detachments, with assistance from the Heer, had been far too effective using rifles in 1941 to ever think it wasn't state policy. Besides that, of the nearly 5 million Red Army POWs taken in '41, about 1/4 survived the year. Then there was the Commisar Order...

No way was Germany coming out of WW2 unscathed against the USSR. It was grossly apparent from day 1 it was a war of annihilation.

As for UK and USA, the war wasn't just blamed on Hitler, it was largely blamed on traditional German militancy, leading back from the roots of Prussia Junkers. Until those were broken as a class, Germany would always remain a dangerous enemy. So by '42, with the US at war with Germany since Dec '41, and the British since '39, with western Europe occupied, there was little chance a separate peace could be made with them by anyone without serious losses in territory, reperations, and even occupation of Fatherland by foreign troops.

At best, in hindsight, the whole of Germany is given to western Allies to occupy. But Stalin would never had allowed it, nor would FDR have gone for it, as he was a fan of Stalin.