What if you became Fuhrer in June 1942?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,039
SoCal
#41
Try to negotiate with the Soviets while Germany still has the edge. Launch Blau but only for the purpose of getting the worried Stalin, with his “stand fast” order, to negotiate, and agree to something like Brest litovsk.
Tell Rommel not to attack again in late August and instead pull back into Libya. Shut down type VII construction and try to use the steel etc saved to increase tank, mortar, antitank gun etc production, to stiffen the defensive capabilities of German forces in the east and west. Tell Doenitz to continue with highly renumerative operations like drumbeat and ice bear but more basically obsolete u-boats aren’t worth the investment.
In the West, don’t send reinforcements to Africa when the allies land in force there. Don’t position a lot of forces along the Atlantic wall or in Sicily, but destroy air bases to prevent them falling into allied hands intact. Let the allies enter France but position some forces secretly, if possible, along their route toward the reach and try to shred their logistical tether after the armor passes.
When the allies reach the Geeman border or soon afterwards, launch a massive battle of the bulge counterattack preferably at a time of bad weather, but with forces vastly stronger than in real life (inasmuch as most of the attritional losses of the past two years will have been avoided). If the allied forces are destroyed or severely mauled, just before the ‘44 elections, FDR would probably lose and the Reich may negotiate with the winner, after public support for the war wanes.
Losing France is going to be a huge blow to the Germans, though.

Also, given the Allies' demand for unconditional surrender and hatred of Nazi Germany, I don't think that even a mauling is going to be enough to get them to make peace. For them to even consider it, you'd probably have to send the Western Allies back into the sea and completely expel them from every single inch of French territory.
 

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
3,998
Connecticut
#42
Losing France is going to be a huge blow to the Germans, though.
It was bound to happen anyway and this way the reich conserves a vast amount of precious fighting power I.e. in the west as well as in the east, so the ultimate counterattack is immeasurably more powerful.

Also, given the Allies' demand for unconditional surrender and hatred of Nazi Germany, I don't think that even a mauling is going to be enough to get them to make peace. For them to even consider it, you'd probably have to send the Western Allies back into the sea and completely expel them from every single inch of French territory.
I think a severe setback, just before the ‘44 elections, could get public support for the war to wane drastically, cost FDR the election and pave the way for a negotiated settlement that leaves the Reich with most of its eastern possessions.
 
Likes: Futurist

macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
3,877
Slovenia, EU
#43
By 1942 its too late to reverse course and start treating Ukrainians well. One, Germans as a whole looked down on them racially. Two, the Germans absolutely fleeced them in terms of pillaging for food especially, they took whatever wasn't nailed down, enough to guarantee mass civilian starvation, which they didn't care about from top to bottom.

If you take over in Jan 42, how the heck do you successfully reverse course on that, to the point anyone works with the Axis? Unlikely is an understatement.

And even with North Africa canceled from Jan 42 prior, that means the eastern front gains four German divisions, only one a true panzer division, and one air fleet. Enough for one panzer corps to help out, but definitely not enough for anything that will stop the USSR.
I would cancel racial laws against all Slavs. My goal against Poland would be pre WWI border with maybe a small addition because Austria, Czechia, Alsace, half of Slovenia were big gains for the Reich. I would give Belarus to Poland and support a new hetmanate in Ukraine and force Soviets to a peace with new borders after their military defeat which was more than achievable in start of 1942. They were on their last leg with no men reserves and third of population under German occupation (or was it more?). Full war economy in 1942, I've read in Speer's memories that he demanded 8 millions of helping hands in households in war industry but got refused because "Germans are used to have them" or something like that. Vlasov would get more involved in fighting the Soviets. I would not claim anything racial but that bolshevik murdering crazy garbage must be removed and a normal Russian government installed. With Russia on it's knees there would be no D-day. Russia was crucial but too large to get conquered. It's military needed to be dismantled and it was at least half achieved, in my opinion more. It was not a Soviet's big achievement to overturn war outcome, it was more to German strategic mistakes in 1942 and low resources a bit later.

Four divisions in Africa were more costly because of logistics, shipping. Were they not getting more reinforcements later, was not 4 or 3 divisions only a starting number? It was an useless campaign in my opinion. Rommel would get an army group in east.

I would keep shooting communist commissars though.
 
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Theodoric

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
2,690
#44
I don’t know what I’d do. But I would establish several goals and strategize how to realistically reach them:

1. End the fascist regime: no more holocaust, no more Germanic exceptionalism, and an end to hierarchical society.

2. Establish Peace, with as little destabilization consequences (to ANYONE) as possible. We would want to avoid treaty of Versailles type situations, as that just forces society into a conflict scenario often resulting in extremism.

3. End Totalitarianism at the FIRST opportunity. Install democracy in Germany and all other nations under German control, with the freedom to withdraw.


Then, of course, since I know the future. I would probably throw some other goals in there.

1. Preventing the out of control growth of the factory farming livestock industry. Perhaps by pushing toward animal ethics. Preservation of nature acts.

2. Preventing destabilization of Asian and African nations.

3. Clean air technological development.

4. I would bet billions on sports events where I knew the outcome, and dump that money back into the economy.

5. Go Back to the Future
 
Last edited:
Jul 2016
9,061
USA
#46
Try to negotiate with the Soviets while Germany still has the edge. Launch Blau but only for the purpose of getting the worried Stalin, with his “stand fast” order, to negotiate, and agree to something like Brest litovsk.
Tell Rommel not to attack again in late August and instead pull back into Libya. Shut down type VII construction and try to use the steel etc saved to increase tank, mortar, antitank gun etc production, to stiffen the defensive capabilities of German forces in the east and west. Tell Doenitz to continue with highly renumerative operations like drumbeat and ice bear but more basically obsolete u-boats aren’t worth the investment.
In the West, don’t send reinforcements to Africa when the allies land in force there. Don’t position a lot of forces along the Atlantic wall or in Sicily, but destroy air bases to prevent them falling into allied hands intact. Let the allies enter France but position some forces secretly, if possible, along their route toward the reach and try to shred their logistical tether after the armor passes.
When the allies reach the Geeman border or soon afterwards, launch a massive battle of the bulge counterattack preferably at a time of bad weather, but with forces vastly stronger than in real life (inasmuch as most of the attritional losses of the past two years will have been avoided). If the allied forces are destroyed or severely mauled, just before the ‘44 elections, FDR would probably lose and the Reich may negotiate with the winner, after public support for the war wanes.
Wow, this is a horrible plan.

So Blau still gets launched, but just to convince Stalin to make piece, with there being zero indication that's true. And what happens when that fails? All those armies driving far east for what? Suddenly they have no real objectives,

Abandoning France without any effort to hold it means losing all that industry, natural resources, manpower for labor, firing sites for later V weapons. It wasn't even until early 1944 that a real significant number of divisions was even in France, in 42 it was a few static divisions and others recuperating after being battered in Russia. If nothing else, holding France gave them depth.

LOL, that you think a small loss in summer of 44 would have the US ready to negotiate. Same with Stalin. Its as if you forgot who had resolve and who didn't.
 
Likes: JakeStarkey

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,051
#47
By June 1942, it wasn't clear Germany could make peace with anyone, and even with better policies it could have still lost the war. There were opportunities for peace with Britain before the invasion of the Soviet Union. Peace with the Soviet Union probably could have been negotiated with the German Army in the suburbs of Moscow. The problem was that in both cases Hitler wasn't realistic about being willing to agree to terms the other side would have accepted.
 
Likes: JakeStarkey
May 2019
134
Salt Lake City, Utah
#48
Denounce and try to reverse the conclusions of the Wansee Conference.

Create a stable front in Russia, go on the defensive, and sue for peace.

Increase the submarine assault in the Atlantic to starve Britain. Capture Gibraltar with a through-Spain Panzer assault and Malta with an airborne and all-out sea assault with forcing the Italian Navy to take part. Once holding the central and western Mediterranean, reinforce Rommel and assault the Suez.

Once objectives in the third paragraph are accomplished, offer a very generous peace proposal to Great Britain. Losing G, M, and S would lead to Churchill's resignation and Lord Halifax's elevation PM I believe H would accept such a proposal and so would Parliament.
 

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
3,998
Connecticut
#49
So Blau still gets launched, but just to convince Stalin to make piece, with there being zero indication that's true. And what happens when that fails? All those armies driving far east for what? Suddenly they have no real objectives,
By late July ‘42 Stalin was getting very worried about German advances, hence his “not another step back back!” order. It would’ve been a good time for Germany to negotiate from a position of strength. Even if Stalin didn’t then agree to German terms—maybe a border along the dneiper—Blau could’ve helped had it been done differently. No attack on Stalingrad, just contain it and the Don flank while giving supply priority to the Caucasus operation, while the Luftwaffe targeted Baku. The idea would’ve been to deprive the Soviets of oil and hence apply additional pressure to accept German war aims, if that were necessary.

Abandoning France without any effort to hold it means losing all that industry, natural resources, manpower for labor, firing sites for later V weapons. It wasn't even until early 1944 that a real significant number of divisions was even in France, in 42 it was a few static divisions and others recuperating after being battered in Russia. If nothing else, holding France gave them depth.
Unfortunately positioning a large force in France while the allies had overwhelming air superiority meant a shredded logistical tether and the catastrophe at Falaise. France was bound to be lost anyway. V weapons weren’t much good either. In the long run it would’ve been a lot more economical and effective for the Germans to make their stand closer to their border.

LOL, that you think a small loss in summer of 44 would have the US ready to negotiate. Same with Stalin. Its as if you forgot who had resolve and who didn't.
Lol had the Reich avoided the vast bulk of losses from 1942 to early ‘44 the potential losses for the US might hardly have been small!! The Germans could’ve first ambushed advancing US forces, then launched a massive attack.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,051
#50
Would Stalin have agreed to peace in June 1942 with Germany keeping Russian Poland / Belarus and the Baltic States and withdrawing from Russian and Ukranian territories?