What is your opinion of Ulysses S. Grant?

Feb 2019
318
Pennsylvania, US
#21
Well, due to the incompetent doctors back then, the doctors could unintentionally "finish" the job that Guiteau started. :(
UGH! Yes... I love how Garfield's doctor was pleased at the "healthy" amount of pus produced by his wound. There was a second doctor who gave an opinion on Garfield's condition, one who was more in the know with what we now think of as modern wound care... he probably could have saved him... but he was kicked out. :rolleyes:
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,699
SoCal
#22
A reporter from the New York Herald traveled with the Grants and described the welcome they received around the globe... the Orient seemed to love Grant and this sort of worldly, exotic flavor of the East was huge at the time with the American public. Some of the first examples of Japanese art/design had been glimpsed by Victorians at the Worlds Fair (ugh... I forget if it was Philadelphia's or Chicago's in the late 1800's), and it set a trend. Victorians loved busy, gaudy patterns in their wallpapers, and this one of the first places where you spot the Asian design influence shoved into this busy Victorian aesthetic... it made them feel very cosmopolitan. Personally, I find it slightly hideous.
The fact that Grant was loved in the Orient does not necessarily mean that Grant was loved in the US, though.

Grant's favor with the 'Stalwarts' got him thinking he should run, they themselves hoping to have greater influence should he win.
Were there no other prominent Stalwart candidates?

Grant's popularity dropped and he was about to send a letter requesting his name be removed from the contest... 'Enter Julia Grant's Sense of Hubby's Honor'...
Where did you get this information?

Grant was tricked out of money a lot in his youth... he was so willing to help a "friend" in need, who was willing to take Grant's last cent (or last $1000 in one case) and not worry about repaying him.
Yep, that really does suck! :(

Hah, well... Honestly, I am not as good at these speculation questions as you - your mind seems to be so good at critical thinking/analysis in this sort of way that I'd rather hear what you thought. I feel like you take information and solve it like a rubix cube.
I did answer this question in one of my posts above. In it, I talked about Guiteau a lot and about his motivations and about how he was likely to expect something from a victorious Grant and then seek revenge when he would have been disappointed. Anyway, you have already replied to this specific post of mine. :)

But, I am pretty (freaking) sure Grant would have been shot. Guiteau had initially written his speech supporting Grant, and later changed it to support Garfield... this action, in his mind meant that he deserved a sort of office or favor from Garfield. Apparently, it was just a matter of crossing out Grant's name and adding Garfield... otherwise his speech was the same. Unless Grant handed him some sort of office or something to placate him, I'd think the outcome would have been the same ... a narcissist receiving orders from God is not a good person to keep too close to you, nor do you want to make him mad.
Completely agreed that this is what would have happened had Grant won in 1880. However, I'm not entirely convinced that Grant would have defeated Hancock in 1880. After all, Blaine's corruption issues doomed him in 1884 and thus I fear that Grant's corruption issues had a decent chance of causing his downfall in 1880 had he been the GOP presidential nominee that year. That said, though, Blaine did almost win in 1884, so I do think that, at worst, Grant's odds of losing would have been about 50%.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,699
SoCal
#23
UGH! Yes... I love how Garfield's doctor was pleased at the "healthy" amount of pus produced by his wound. There was a second doctor who gave an opinion on Garfield's condition, one who was more in the know with what we now think of as modern wound care... he probably could have saved him... but he was kicked out. :rolleyes:
Who was this second doctor?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,699
SoCal
#24
Also, in regards to Garfield, it's possible that had his doctors left him alone, he would have been able to survive getting shot--or at least survive for much longer.
 

Edratman

Ad Honorem
Feb 2009
6,460
Eastern PA
#25
Guiteau's 1880 campaign speech was initially titled Grant versus Hancock, though. It was only changed to Garfield versus Hancock after Garfield unexpectedly won the 1880 GOP nomination. Ultimately, Guiteau changed little more than the title of this speech.
I was unaware of the fact that Guiteau initially directed his campaign activities towards Grant. In that case I was wrong and there was a good chance that he would have been in Washington.
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,645
US
#26
I agree with the posters who have argued that Grant's poor rating as president may be overblown. While he may have trusted his underlings too much, consider he was not a politician in any form. And it is true that, as a result, corruption was rampant. But, as mentioned buy another poster, he did work to dismantle the KKK. It was during Grant's administration that the Native American Reservation System was instituted. In hindsight this may seem malicious, at the time it was an approach that saved many from likely extinction. As for his generalship, Grant was unmatched for his leadership and skill on the Union side and possibly on either side. It is likely the North would have not won the war without his leadership.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,699
SoCal
#28
A Dr. Silas Boynton... he was a homeopath (which at the time, meant he believed in germ theories) and was not allowed to treat Garfield. Bliss only let him assist.
It's a huge shame that he wasn't in charge of Garfield's care. :(

I agree with the posters who have argued that Grant's poor rating as president may be overblown. While he may have trusted his underlings too much, consider he was not a politician in any form. And it is true that, as a result, corruption was rampant. But, as mentioned buy another poster, he did work to dismantle the KKK. It was during Grant's administration that the Native American Reservation System was instituted. In hindsight this may seem malicious, at the time it was an approach that saved many from likely extinction. As for his generalship, Grant was unmatched for his leadership and skill on the Union side and possibly on either side. It is likely the North would have not won the war without his leadership.
"By another poster," not "buy another poster." :)

BTW, were Native Americans allowed to leave the reservations in the 1870s?

Also, I agree with the general gist of your post here but also want to add the passage of the 15th Amendment--even if this Amendment ultimately became largely unenforced in the Southern US for an extremely long time. :(
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,645
US
#29
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Feb 2019
318
Pennsylvania, US
#30
The fact that Grant was loved in the Orient does not necessarily mean that Grant was loved in the US, though.

Were there no other prominent Stalwart candidates?
I don't think Grant was doing too bad at the time in terms of popularity - but I'm sure people wanted to use any additional notoriety as a stepping stone to power, like they always used Grant.

Garfield was the Stalwart / moderate compromise, right? Because they got 'Stalwart' Arthur as running mate... I guess that makes Chester Arthur the other favorite. Guiteau made that sort of “I'm am a Stalwart of all Stalwarts” statement because of this, didn't he? Or was he just... nuts? 😆


Where did you get this information?
Reading Chernow's book on Grant... but I found some reference to Julia's insistence online, just not the emphatic quote I remember reading...

“Grant’s wise decision not to run for a third term met with Julia’s sullen disappointment. Knowing his wife as well as he did, Grant kept the letter announcing his decision not to seek re-election a secret.

During Julia Grant’s eight-year tenure, the White House was restored to the center of Washington’s social life. Julia had succeeded in making it both a social center, as well as a comfortable home. Her last act was to prepare a luncheon for the incoming Rutherford and Lucy Hayes on Inauguration Day 1877. She sobbed like a child when she climbed into her carriage to leave. No one ever left more reluctantly than Julia Grant.” - Julia Grant's Bio on Genealogy Website
 
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