What lesson(s) should be learned from the history of the holocaust?

Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
#51
Examples? I cannot reply if I don't know what specifically you are referring to.
I will try to get some.

But it was a generic (and genuine) question: why so many (and more extreme the stance, more often it's happening) are referring to history to justify/fundament their contemporary stance.

I was also asking because (although I know very little former Yugoslavia and Albania) I have doubts that history (or its interpretation) counts in general opinions less there than elsewhere.
 
Oct 2011
345
Croatia
#52
I will try to get some.

But it was a generic (and genuine) question: why so many (and more extreme the stance, more often it's happening) are referring to history to justify/fundament their contemporary stance.

I was also asking because (although I know very little former Yugoslavia and Albania) I have doubts that history (or its interpretation) counts in general opinions less there than elsewhere.
Humans are by nature a bit insane (at best... sometimes they are far more than just a bit). So understanding history is the only way to understand human behaviour. Of course, history can be misinterpreted... but not knowing/unerstanding history, or dismissing it as "thing of the past", is a sure way to misunderstand contemporary events - which then often leads into unjustified optimism ("I know it failed a million times before, but this time will be better, I swear!").

But I thought your question was specific for situation in Croatia, not a general one. If anything, most people here do not care enough about history. The only bit of history anybody regularly talks about are Ustashe and Partisans... and that is mostly because Communists still hold power in Croatia, so their favourite tactic to "discredit" somebody is to accuse him of being Ustashi or a Nazi.
 
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
#53
Humans are by nature a bit insane (at best... sometimes they are far more than just a bit). So understanding history is the only way to understand human behaviour. Of course, history can be misinterpreted... but not knowing/unerstanding history, or dismissing it as "thing of the past", is a sure way to misunderstand contemporary events - which then often leads into unjustified optimism ("I know it failed a million times before, but this time will be better, I swear!").

But I thought your question was specific for situation in Croatia, not a general one. If anything, most people here do not care enough about history. The only bit of history anybody regularly talks about are Ustashe and Partisans... and that is mostly because Communists still hold power in Croatia, so their favourite tactic to "discredit" somebody is to accuse him of being Ustashi or a Nazi.
Thank You, it's a bit clearer now (for me, I mean).
 
Jan 2016
589
United States, MO
#54
The idea that purity doesn’t exist in nature. All humans are mixed and the lines drawn between groups are artificial. A facist and an minority both share humanity in common. This is what should have been learned, but it wasn’t and I find it highly troubling.
 
Likes: Scaeva
Oct 2011
345
Croatia
#56
Humans are not necessarily anything 'by nature', a value system is built up as a result of their geographical surroundings.

Which is why human beings in Britain have had a completely different trajectory to say human beings in Germany.
Actually, high intelligence is associated with mental disorders.
Why highly intelligent people suffer from more mental and physical disorders
Bad News for the Highly Intelligent
Why Are Genius and Madness Connected?

And it is not just within species.
Why We Are All Insane
Humania: The Madness of the Human Mind
 
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
#57
Actually, high intelligence is associated with mental disorders.

Why highly intelligent people suffer from more mental and physical disorders ...

The title is not saying exactly what the scientific paper the article is based upon said, Picard:


(quote)...Highlights

A potential association between a hyperbrain (high IQ) and a hyperbody was examined.

Those with high IQ had higher risk for psychological disorders (RR 1.20 - 223.08).

High IQ was associated with higher risk for physiological diseases (RR 1.84 - 4.33).

Findings lend substantial support to a hyper brain/hyper body theory.
(end of quote)
source: High intelligence: A risk factor for psychological and physiological overexcitabilities - ScienceDirect

Anyway, some of the "mental disorders" are very debatable, in the sense of whatever they are really "mental disorders" (=>mental "illness") or is just what "we" generally consider as "normal" and what "we" consider "abnormal". It's a very slippering domain.

The other thing is that You answered to
Humans are not necessarily anything 'by nature',
which was an answer to " ... Humans are by nature a bit insane ... " with a study on high intelligence.

It's unrelated, IMHO.
 
Jan 2017
1,298
Durham
#58
Go on then, why exactly are we all insane?

I've been to Croatia several times and it's the most calm country I've ever been to. Everything about it: the weather, the sea, the people. I didn't get the impression of a country suffering from collective insanity.
 
Jan 2017
1,298
Durham
#59
Take note of this quote from Goering.

“Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship…

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

It's about war but it can easily apply to demonising a group of people. Look around the world today, and you see it in action.
What are you saying? That the state has only to appeal to fear and pride and the people will respond with Jingoism?
 
Jan 2017
1,298
Durham
#60
Take note of this quote from Goering.

“Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship…

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

It's about war but it can easily apply to demonising a group of people. Look around the world today, and you see it in action.
What Goering was saying is that appeal to people's fear and pride and you will have them at your beck and call, which is nothing new and widely understood. John Locke said something similar when he talked of people being easily impressed with the packaging.

But, the fact is that people don't want to kill one another. We go about out business not caring for what is going on 20 miles down the road let alone in another country populated by people who supposedly want to kill us and foreign nations are exactly the same.

So, it comes back to my point that you have to keep control of the government because if you don't they'll lead you into wars. And this means fighting for your individual freedoms. And, it's why the United States is such a great country, they understand this more than any other nation on this planet.
 

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