What wars are completely misunderstood?

Jul 2018
59
United States
#1
What's a war that people get all wrong? For instance, a war that wasn't fought over what people think it was fought over?
 
Oct 2018
671
Adelaide south Australia
#2
What's a war that people get all wrong? For instance, a war that wasn't fought over what people think it was fought over?

For me, there aren't any.

My position is that wars are never fought on ethical or moral principles, except perhaps by the some of the poor bastards doing the actual dying.

I served in a combat unit, joining just after the unit had returned from Vietnam. I worked as a medic, and met just about every guy in the battalion. In 14 months,I never once heard a veteran speak of fighting to bring freedom to the oppressed, or out of any sense of duty or patriotism. All gave the same motivation; to stay alive and to protect their mates. Their greatest concern was letting down their mates, to whom they were closer than brothers.

Wars are fought for one or both of two reason only: To take something the other chap has, or to stop the other chap from taking something you have.

Wars occur when cynical old men convince gormless young men, at home, or abroad, to kill the gormless young men from somewhere else. It's always a lot easier if there is some convenient moral outrage..If that is not the case, then something is always invented. Not for nothing was the aphorism " In war the first casualty is truth"' was coined.
 
Feb 2016
4,065
Japan
#3
Boer War easily.
Popular myth - evil greedy England wanted to steal the boers gold mines and add them to their empire. Boers completely outclass the hapless Brits until they round up their kids and to genocide them in concentration camps.

Truth - racist boers believe they are the master race and all of Africa belongs to them. Especially the diamond mines in natal with they want. Britain is too kind to blacks so must be driven to the sea. Kruger, a blockheaded religious nut, encourages this and the Boers with a massive force of fighters, most of them useless conscripts invade an unprepared British natal and almost immediately begin looting and burning farms, beating up non combatants, burning boers farms who deserted or didn’t want to fight, getting beaten in fights and royally fudging everything up. Despite 1 week of lucky victories coming after 1 month of complete arse kickings the boers invasion is a complete cock up. Boers are fairly useless soldiers and argue, ignore each other, shoot medical personnel and wounded men and generally do what they feel like doing.
Britain realises these pests will always be a problem, especially the Transvaal rednecks so invades. The gold mines are owned predominantly by British, French and German business men, most boers not knowing anything about mining, and thus the British have no stake in them. The boers start burning their own farms to deny the British food, to punish boers for not wanting to fight, leading to mass starvation and a refugee crisis amongst Transvaal, OFS and native populations. These refugees are taken into refugee camps in British territory where some die of disease due to the overwhelming numbers of people and the weakened state they arrive in. On the whole though they are treated better than before and are saved by the British. Many women are given education and training denied to them by hillbilly boer men, children learn to read and write, and people are allowed to leave the camps during the day to work in towns or visit people in other camps.
Boers then and after the war thanked the British for saving their families. The boers, ground down and crushed by the military and suffering casualties beyond their imagination slowly start to come to their senses. A few refuse and they start murdering each other.
 
Oct 2018
671
Adelaide south Australia
#4
"Boers then and after the war thanked the British for saving their families. The boers, ground down and crushed by the military and suffering casualties beyond their imagination slowly start to come to their senses. A few refuse and they start murdering each other."

Was that before or after the English bunged thousand of Boer families into concentration camps where thousands died from typhus and cholera?

England was protecting its empire, to which it had no right other than force of arms. Neither did the Boers have any right of possession. The English and the Boers were each fighting over land and resources which did not belong to them.

The Colonial English were, like other colonial powers, a bunch of immoral bastards. They never thought to question their god-given right to steal countries from others, especially those considered inferior to them..

I repeat: Wars are never fought on moral principle, although belligerents on every side soon invent at least one.


BRITISH CONCENTRATION CAMPS DURING THE BOER WAR

"Boer women, children and men unfit for service were herded together in concentration camps by the British forces during Anglo-Boer War 2 (1899-1902). The first two of these camps (refugee camps) were established to house the families of burghers who had surrendered voluntarily, but very soon, with families of combatant burgers driven forcibly into camps established all over the country, the camps ceased to be refugee camps and became concentration camps. The abhorrent conditions in these camps caused the death of 4 177 women, 22 074 children under sixteen and 1 676 men, mainly those too old to be on commando, notwithstanding the efforts of an English lady, Emily Hobhouse, who tried her best to make the British authorities aware of the plight of especially the women and children in the camps.

Women & Children in White Concentration Camps during the Anglo-Boer War, 1900-1902

Thought for the day: "Man is rational-ising rather than a rational animal" (anon_) . As a species, we can and and have, rationalised any act from which we will benefit.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
5,613
#5
Wars are mainly about power, money, expansion of empires, etc. However, many wars, particularly civil war and rebellions, have ideological or religious components. There were strong ideological and/or religious components in the Roman, English, American, Russian, and Spanish Civil Wars, as well as the 30 Years War.

WWII and the Cold War and associated conflicts had ideological components, but those were not as important as the way they were presented to the public in the US and Britain / British Commonwealth.
 
Feb 2016
4,065
Japan
#6
I’ll explain it again.
The Boers caused the refugee crisis.
The British gave them shelter.
Thousands died of a typhus epidemic (it killed the British in the camps too).
A few died from starvation.... caused by boers..
If they hadn’t been in camps they’d have died on the sveldt.
The boers had been suffering military casualties before the camps. They also suffered from the typhus outbreak. But yeah. Once they started losing and burning down farms the camps became more vital.
And they thanked them at the end of the war.
“One is only too thankful nowadays to know that our wives are under British protection”
Louis Botha while STILL fighting.

“the first ofvthem was opened at Krugersdorp as a shelter for refugees, whose numbers grew after Kitchner failed to prevent Botha to stop terrorising surrendered burghers on their farms.
Eric Walker - A History of South Africa.

The Boers caused the camps. The British weren’t bunging people in them at all.
Even Hobhouse admits “they really were refugee camps”
But she WAS a dishonest propagandist caught out lying several times.
 
Last edited:
Feb 2016
4,065
Japan
#7
Contrast conditions in Krugersdorp or Middelburg to
conditions in Nooitgedacht... that the boer rum camp for POWs.

At Krugersdorp refugees were free to come and gobss the please, had jobs in camp or town.
At Petermaritzburg the men all had jobs in the local breweries or railways. Infact it was priority to give work to camp residents in preference to local residents. They even made more money than the official camp enployees! (£5633 camp salary budget, £7232 made by camp residents).

So this nonsense of comparing them to death camps is ludicrous.
Did people die in the camps? Yeah!
There was a measles outbreak in 1899 and 1900 saw typhus... it struck everywhere. Camp Deellers didnt die at any higher rate than soldiers or non camp residents.

Also what is often forgotten is the general .... nastiness ... of rural boers whose unsanitary lifestyle pretty much assured the spread of disease. Every camp had to retrain boers on basic sanitary habits ... young boer women being trained as nurses (unheard of in Boer life).
Every camp was well staffed (despite propagand lies) with drs and nurses both local and GB recruited who lived in the camps, in tents on the same food rations as residents.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
4,372
Netherlands
#9
Contrast conditions in Krugersdorp or Middelburg to
conditions in Nooitgedacht... that the boer rum camp for POWs.

At Krugersdorp refugees were free to come and gobss the please, had jobs in camp or town.
At Petermaritzburg the men all had jobs in the local breweries or railways. Infact it was priority to give work to camp residents in preference to local residents. They even made more money than the official camp enployees! (£5633 camp salary budget, £7232 made by camp residents).

So this nonsense of comparing them to death camps is ludicrous.
Did people die in the camps? Yeah!
There was a measles outbreak in 1899 and 1900 saw typhus... it struck everywhere. Camp Deellers didnt die at any higher rate than soldiers or non camp residents.

Also what is often forgotten is the general .... nastiness ... of rural boers whose unsanitary lifestyle pretty much assured the spread of disease. Every camp had to retrain boers on basic sanitary habits ... young boer women being trained as nurses (unheard of in Boer life).
Every camp was well staffed (despite propagand lies) with drs and nurses both local and GB recruited who lived in the camps, in tents on the same food rations as residents.
White women, children and elderly were put in camps in desperate conditions. 22k children died there.
Over 100k black people were also put in camps for working. Over 1 in 10 of them died.

But keep saying the enlightened British military did a great humanitarian job.
 
Likes: bboomer
Feb 2016
4,065
Japan
#10
More nonsense.
Even the most rabid Boer propaganda doesn’t claim 22k children died in boer camps.
27k Boers are claimed died in the camps for a variety of reasons including old age, child birth, infant mortality (lower in camps than Boer civilian life), national disease outbreaks (killing people outside the camps aswell), exhaustion, from Boer medical practices and bad hygienic practices of the Boer... but with out the camps that 27k could have been 75k or 200k.

But let the Boers speak for themselves.

Pietersburg was raided by bitter einders in 1901.. after a good night with their wives (and other men’s wives) the Boer commandant expressed his satisfaction with conditions and said they were happy leaving their wives there.

General Viljoen complained to Kitchener about “conditions” in the camps that he had not seen. He sent his man Malan under truce to investigate and Malan reported “satisfaction with the childrens” living conditions.
Kitchener offered to return all the women and children in British camps to De Wet in December 1901... De Wet didn’t reply.