What wars are completely misunderstood?

Aug 2010
14,990
Welsh Marches
#11
I must say that I had always got the impression that conditions in the camps were pretty appalling; can you point me to any reliable literature on them?
 
Feb 2016
4,065
Japan
#12
Clive Martin - The Concentration Camps - Facts Figures and Fables. If you can find it.

A Tool For Modernisation - The Boer Camps 1900-1902.
A tool for modernisation? The Boer concentration camps of the South African War, 1900-1902
This paper contains descriptions of boer hygiene standards and British attempts to save them from it.

I also recommend South African historian Chris Ash’s book Kruger, Kommandoz and Kak. An excellent myth busting tome that shreds the popular apartheid propaganda version of the war, including the common lies about camps. Be warned he has a very acerbic tone BUT no one has successfully rebutted his arguments (just his style).
 
Feb 2016
4,065
Japan
#14
It should also be noted that the 27k figure has been proven to included
Boer civillians who died abroad.
Boer civilians who dissappeared.
Multiple recording of the same persons death if it appeared spelled differently.
Recording the deaths of adults 12-17(Boers considered 12 to be legally adult) as children ONLY for the sake of camp deaths.
Boers who died before they reached the camp.
 
Mar 2016
393
Australia
#15
The French invasion of Russia in 1812. The common misconception is that it was the ultimate culmination of Napoleon's enormous ego and thirst for glory and conquest, but the reality couldn't be further from the truth. He was furious at Emperor Alexander's refusal to continue the embargo against the United Kingdom and, Napoleon being Napoleon, thought that war was the only way to force the Russians to abide by the embargo once again (he was probably right in that). Napoleon had no intention of annexing even an inch of Russian territory and expected the war to be brief and fought in Poland or Ukraine and be over in a couple of months after a single decisive battle. Napoleon still even harboured an incredibly naive belief that he and Alexander were personal friends and that they could work together in their imperial ambitions.
 
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Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
4,372
Netherlands
#16
Clive Martin - The Concentration Camps - Facts Figures and Fables. If you can find it.

A Tool For Modernisation - The Boer Camps 1900-1902.
A tool for modernisation? The Boer concentration camps of the South African War, 1900-1902
This paper contains descriptions of boer hygiene standards and British attempts to save them from it.

I also recommend South African historian Chris Ash’s book Kruger, Kommandoz and Kak. An excellent myth busting tome that shreds the popular apartheid propaganda version of the war, including the common lies about camps. Be warned he has a very acerbic tone BUT no one has successfully rebutted his arguments (just his style).
So what is exactly wrong with my description? The camps were appalling and only after 2 years there were some improvements.
And mind you the "black" camps were even worse.

I am no equating it with events some 40 years later, but what did they expect would happen when you put people in crowded camps with a bare minimum of supplies?
 
Oct 2018
671
Adelaide south Australia
#17
"Even the most rabid Boer propaganda doesn’t claim 22k children died in boer camps."


As it turns out, the figures I have are: 4177 women, 22,-074 children under 16, and 1676 men.

The British concentration camps of the Boer War are notorious. I honestly was not aware it was a subject still debated by revisionist historians..

I refer to my previous post. Perhaps read it this time, as well as the link to information about an English woman, EMILY HOBHOUSE who tried in vain to get British authorities to to do something about the death toll in the camps.

BRITISH CONCENTRATION CAMPS DURING THE BOER WAR

"Boer women, children and men unfit for service were herded together in concentration camps by the British forces during Anglo-Boer War 2 (1899-1902). The first two of these camps (refugee camps) were established to house the families of burghers who had surrendered voluntarily, but very soon, with families of combatant burgers driven forcibly into camps established all over the country, the camps ceased to be refugee camps and became concentration camps. The abhorrent conditions in these camps caused the death of 4 177 women, 22 074 children under sixteen and 1 676 men, mainly those too old to be on commando, notwithstanding the efforts of an English lady, Emily Hobhouse, who tried her best to make the British authorities aware of the plight of especially the women and children in the camps.

Women & Children in White Concentration Camps during the Anglo-Boer War, 1900-1902


Below, a few more references found in a few minutes of searching. The same figures I used are to be found in these references. I did no special filtering to conform with an existing view.

British Concentration Camps

Haunting Photos Of History's First Concentration Camps, 40 Years Before The Holocaust

The Boer Wars - Second Boer War - Concentration Camps


Bored now.
 
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Aug 2014
94
New York, USA
#18
The British concentration camps of the Boer War are notorious. I honestly was not aware it was a subject still debated by revisionist historians..
He even shrugs off initial Boer success as "lucky victories". If you actually study those battles, the Boers completely tactically and strategically outclassed the British. Since the Brits had no reliable maps of the area, the soldiers kept blundering blindly into Boer traps and get massacred. It is only after the overwhelming British "steamroller" and putting the people in concentration camps to combat Boer insurgency did the British military get the situation under control.
 
Oct 2018
671
Adelaide south Australia
#19
He even shrugs off initial Boer success as "lucky victories". If you actually study those battles, the Boers completely tactically and strategically outclassed the British. Since the Brits had no reliable maps of the area, the soldiers kept blundering blindly into Boer traps and get massacred. It is only after the overwhelming British "steamroller" and putting the people in concentration camps to combat Boer insurgency did the British military get the situation under control.

Yep, a guerilla war in fact: The Boers lacked the numbers for a traditional battle. But, they were mounted, knew the the terrain and had local support.. One of those wars in which both sides were complete arsehats.


Have you heard of "Breaker Morant?"

An Australian fighting the Boers.There had been orders not to take prisoners.So he shot a few Boers who had surrendered. Unfortunately for him, the politics of the situation had changed. There were a bunch of courts martial. Morant and a man called Handcock were shot.. There has been a campaign here o have him pardoned for many years.

There is an a pretty good Australian film, with the creative title 'Breaker Morant', starring Edward Woodward as Harry 'Breaker' Morant. . Entertaining, but not very good history.It was actually shot here in Adelaide and surrounds. Not something which happens very often.. :)

Breaker Morant - Wikipedia
 
Feb 2016
4,065
Japan
#20
He even shrugs off initial Boer success as "lucky victories". If you actually study those battles, the Boers completely tactically and strategically outclassed the British. Since the Brits had no reliable maps of the area, the soldiers kept blundering blindly into Boer traps and get massacred. It is only after the overwhelming British "steamroller" and putting the people in concentration camps to combat Boer insurgency did the British military get the situation under control.
Please list all “massacres” the boers inflicted in the 2nd Boer War....

Your narrative owes more to Boer apartheid revisionism than fact. Wiley Boers running rings about British. Here’s how 1899 panned out.

Oct 12th War commences. Boers invade Natal. Begin looting and burning farms.
October 14th Boer attack in Mafeking defeated.
October 20th Talana Boers defeated.
October 21st Elandslaagte Boers routed.
October 25th Boers attack Mafeking and are defeated.
Nov 1st Boers invade Cape Colony
Nov 9th Boers attack Ladysmith. Defeated.
Nov 13th Boers attack Kuruman. Defeated.
Nov 23rd Boers defeated at Belmont
Nov 23rd British defeated at Willoe Grange.
Nov 25th Boers defeated at Graspan
Nov 25th Boer Laager at Deerdepoort defeated.
Nov 28th Modder River Boers defeated.
Dec 4th Boers invest Magersfontein Hills.
Dec 7th Ladysmith night raid. British destroy Boers gun position.
Dec 10th Boer bictory at Stormberg.
British have second successful raid at Ladysmith.
Dec 11th British defeatedvat Magersfontein. Dec 13th Boer attack in Arundel defeated
Dec 15th colenso Boer Victory.
.
 
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