What was needed to stop the 60s liberal revolution in its tracks?

Oct 2009
3,452
San Diego
#11
You realize you won and now the US has two major party's right of center right? After 1980 the Republicans went far right and the Dems got beaten so badly by Reagan they did the Third Way thing that mostly persists to this very day?
You realize that that resulted in the decline of the middle class, the spread of poverty, and the growth of income inequality to a level even greater than it was when communist movements spread thru europe?

That pendulum swings.... and is now gaining momentum swinging back toward liberalism and socialism.
Modern society can not continue in the direction of conservatism.
Its not sustainable.
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#12
You realize that that resulted in the decline of the middle class, the spread of poverty, and the growth of income inequality to a level even greater than it was when communist movements spread thru europe?

That pendulum swings.... and is now gaining momentum swinging back toward liberalism and socialism.
Modern society can not continue in the direction of conservatism.
Its not sustainable.

Interesting. Australia has two major parties. Three actually, but the two conservative have been a coalition for decades. Anyway, we have centre right, which used to be the socialistic Labor party and further right, our Tories. Not quite Tweedle Dum Tweedle Dee, but not very far apart either.

I would welcome a swing back to broad liberalism, but can see no sign in Australia yet.

Don't know enough about US domestic politics to comment. It's too facile to comment on the incumbent president; my source of information is only from media.

Gore Vidal predicted the US was heading for a dictatorship some time ago

In terms of world changes: I read some time ago that both India and Chin now have a middle class of approx. 200 million-- huge effect on consumer demand, producing a stronger economy..

Quote for the Day . "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag" (Upton Sinclair)
 
Jun 2017
2,565
Connecticut
#13
You realize that that resulted in the decline of the middle class, the spread of poverty, and the growth of income inequality to a level even greater than it was when communist movements spread thru europe?

That pendulum swings.... and is now gaining momentum swinging back toward liberalism and socialism.
Modern society can not continue in the direction of conservatism.
Its not sustainable.
yes. Irritates me when people think the left controls things when they really don't. 1980 and the supposedly hippe Boomers turned America into the center right and right wing country.
 
Likes: Arminius

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,292
Brassicaland
#14
Why are some people falling into the nostalgia trap again?
Although my readings were mostly scanning previously, Stephanie Coontz's The Way We Never Were and The Way We Really Are have left me certain impressions.
Is it that difficult to come to terms with the reality?
We have at least two members in this thread who lived through the historical period; even their perceptions of their time can be biased.
I can also review my brief existence: I have witnessed the 9-11 Attack, the birth of the Internet (I was a relatively late starter), the Collapse of the Soviet Union, and many historical events; then, my testimonies on these events cannot be fully fair and square.
Social situation is much more complicated than we think:
Housing prices and education costs have left many younger people home-bound or marry later (if at all), and form way smaller families (if at all).
The consequences are aging population and a rapidly shrinking next generation.
What will the world be like when the youngest "baby boomers" start exiting this dimension?
 
Oct 2009
3,452
San Diego
#15
Interesting. Australia has two major parties. Three actually, but the two conservative have been a coalition for decades. Anyway, we have centre right, which used to be the socialistic Labor party and further right, our Tories. Not quite Tweedle Dum Tweedle Dee, but not very far apart either.

I would welcome a swing back to broad liberalism, but can see no sign in Australia yet.

Don't know enough about US domestic politics to comment. It's too facile to comment on the incumbent president; my source of information is only from media.

Gore Vidal predicted the US was heading for a dictatorship some time ago

In terms of world changes: I read some time ago that both India and Chin now have a middle class of approx. 200 million-- huge effect on consumer demand, producing a stronger economy..

Quote for the Day . "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag" (Upton Sinclair)

Fascism is always wrapped in the flag.
Australia and Britain are not in the same pickle- You folks have a parliamentary system in which 3 or 4 or even more parties are actually viable because if no party wins 51% then the party with the most votes is required to form a coalition government with other parties.
Thereby helping to prevent minority rule.

But in the US whoever gets the most electoral votes- or districts- gets total power- So 3rd or 4th parties do nothing but split the potential majority into factions, and this allows a minority party like the GOP to sieze power.

I don't know that the US could end up with a dictator- because the nation is decidedly majority liberal.- The rise of conservatism in the 80s and 90's and advent of the internet unfortunately has enabled a massive disinformation campaign that has polarized the nation- most notably by enemy agents like Putin who has been behind the Brexit Movement- the Catalan Independence Movement, Marine LePen in France and the Trump election rigging in the US- all campaigns designed to divide public opinions in western democraices and undermine our economic Strength, and political ability to take any specific course of action.

At present we are seeing the rise of the kleptocrats trying to weaken the ability of governments to rein in their avarice and power in the form of people like Putin and the Koch bros and Rupert Murdock. What they are after is a new aristocracy of ownership and intimidation and the relegation of everyone else into the industrial age equivalent of serfs, living our entire lives servicing the debt they put us in from cradle to grave.

I can only hope that people get wise to the manipulation and start to realize that Government is the SOLUTION to the tyranny of wealth.
The Invisible Hand of the Market is the perfect tool for picking everyone's pocket.
And the First thing that is bought in a "free market" is the influence to Rig the market in the favor of those who can afford to buy that influence.

The last time income inequality was this bad there was communist revolutions and labor riots.

The time before that there were guillotines in the public squares of paris.

I hope it doesn't come to that- I hope we can take control back from the wealthy and tax them in proportion to their share. And put curbs on finance. since 1980 the rich have been waging class warfare. And the working classes are only just beginning to realize its an actual war.
 
Likes: Spartakus X
#16
What was needed to stop the 60s liberal revolution in its tracks and restore 50s conservatism, basically confine liberlism to legal equality for blacks that is basically it, without the sexual revolution?
Why would you want to? The only types the 1950s appeal to are religious crackpots and white racists/sexist men. It's the complete opposite of what the US was founded to be.
 
Oct 2009
3,452
San Diego
#18
Why are some people falling into the nostalgia trap again?
Although my readings were mostly scanning previously, Stephanie Coontz's The Way We Never Were and The Way We Really Are have left me certain impressions.
Is it that difficult to come to terms with the reality?
We have at least two members in this thread who lived through the historical period; even their perceptions of their time can be biased.
I can also review my brief existence: I have witnessed the 9-11 Attack, the birth of the Internet (I was a relatively late starter), the Collapse of the Soviet Union, and many historical events; then, my testimonies on these events cannot be fully fair and square.
Social situation is much more complicated than we think:
Housing prices and education costs have left many younger people home-bound or marry later (if at all), and form way smaller families (if at all).
The consequences are aging population and a rapidly shrinking next generation.
What will the world be like when the youngest "baby boomers" start exiting this dimension?

In fact- there are more people every year.
NATIONS may have declining birth rates- but that is easy to solve thru simple immigration.
Every MATURE market economy has EXACTLY the growth in GDP that they have in population.

Nations with stagnant populations have stagnant economies.

That is the Trap of Captialism- it is a ponsi scheme which can only function as long as there is growth.
This is why income inequality is the biggest threat to our futures... because an economy is NOT money- it is the FLOW of money. And as the rich get ever richer- the money pools into lakes and oceans and the dry highlands where the working class lives turn to deserts.

This is why ALL governance must be a form of socialism... to Balance the tendency of capitalism to concentrate wealth into ever fewer hands... to tax and redistribute that money the way evaporation lifts water out of oceans and lakes and rains it down on the highlands so that money can FLOW downhill and do useful work.

We have to stop being absolutist in our ideologies. Capitalism NEEDS to be MIXED with Socialism to have a functioning and productive society.
No private venture should be allowed that does not provide a living wage- if your business model can't exist without subsidized labor- then your business is a LEECH on the body politic and we don't NEED it.
 
Likes: Spartakus X
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#19
yes. Irritates me when people think the left controls things when they really don't. 1980 and the supposedly hippe Boomers turned America into the center right and right wing country.
I think I mentioned before that the hippies I ran across in the 60's were a bunch of entitled, middle class wankers (poseurs). They could afford the 'rebellious' lifestyle because they didn't have to worry about money and had lots of free time.. For the most part they were at university on daddy's dime doing liberal arts.*** A lot of the guys were at university to avoid the draft, for which I blame them not a jot or a tittle..Students doing real degrees, in the sciences, or law were too busy working their arses off to earn their degree,

MY 'circle'? We had to work for a living.Many employers would not even allow guys with long hair.

I remember being amused as I saw 'my' hippies absorbed back into the middle class as teachers and junior public servants.

Yes, my generation is largely to blame for the pig's breakfast we made of the world we were going to change.

However, I think the move to the right is also an age thing. I belonged to the Australian Labor Party for over 30 years. It was founded as the political arm of the Trade Union movement. Its emphasis was on Social Justice. I watched it move to the right with dismay as my parent's generation aged. It got a lot worse as my generation aged.

People generally don't like change. This is especially true of older people. I think that may be why reform governments don't last long.


** YES, I have a liberal arts degree.There is a lot of confusion about Liberal Arts degrees; Not meant to qualify a person for anything. After obtaining such a degree, with luck, the person will have a reasonable, broad education. They will be literate and have learned the basic of rational thinking----THAT"S if they were wanted to be there and were paying attention. My observation was that didn't actually apply to the majority. ME? Working class to my back teeth, first member of my family to attend university. Took me two years to feel I deserved the honour of attending University.

OF course, university has a totally different function for children of the upper classes.

I'm afraid I'm an example of the danger in teaching the lower classes to read.:hug:,
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,549
US
#20
Why would you want to? The only types the 1950s appeal to are religious crackpots and white racists/sexist men. It's the complete opposite of what the US was founded to be.
One of the things that I find ironic is that most of the peace and love hippies from the 60s have grown old to be bitter, vengeful judgemental people who epitomize what they supposedly opposed in their youth. Well, at least that has been my experience.
 
Likes: bboomer