What was needed to stop the 60s liberal revolution in its tracks?

Oct 2009
3,434
San Diego
#51
That makes no sense. Capitalism created the middle class. Literally, free market capitalistic entrepreneurs created the mercantile system, creating an entirely new class of people who previously didn't exist. Now your'e saying the only thing to save capitalists and the middle class of small business owners, managers, skilled workers, is to contain them with socialism, which is govt telling them what they can and cannot make, sell, buy, etc, through a centrally planned economy (the only one a govt can control). Seems kind of...wrong.
WRONG- Captialism created the era of the robber barons, child labor, and owing your entire life to the company store.

Workers Around the western world, from the US to Russia revolted against the excesses of captialism and the result was labor riots, and the rise of communist movements. Britain, france and the US ONLY avoided a communist revolution thru the legalization of labor unions.
It was labor unions that gave us weekends off. Labor inions and strikes that gave us decent pay and benefits.
But even that could not stop Captialism from bankrupting the world thru stupid stock speculation scams in 29.

And what was Captialisms answer to the crash? Do Nothing.
By 1932 the entire western world was in a depression.

On this wave FDR and the democrats swept to power and instituted socialist systems for getting the people working again. They created social security and RAISED taxes on the rich- they REGULATED banks- and they borrowed money to build the infrastructure that, ten year later, would be the sole reason US industry was able to massively outproduce every other nation combined to end WWII.

ALL of that, Socialism.

And when that war was won, it was government socialism that created the VA to take care of vets, that provided the G.I. Bill to help veterans into home ownership.
It was Socialism that created the Home Mortgage interest deduction- that Enabled americans to own their own home... ( y'know- the deduction the GOP in the US just took away to the surprise of many middle class americans who saw their taxes go UP by thousands of dollars after being told they would get a tax cut? )

It was socialism that built the interstate highway system- NOT private enterprise- and that highway system TRIPLED the GDP of the US permanently.

Oh, and it was socialism that landed men on the moon.


So, seriously... if you don't understand a concept such as collective action by government using taxpayer funds to benefit the entire community, state or nation, then you really ought not be making unsupported pronouncements about what captialism has done.

Socialism can not Replace capitalism- that would be disastrous.
But capitalism, all on its own, is ALSO disastrous.

The interests of the individual MUST be BALANCED with the interests of the community for a decent society to thrive.

Stop demonizing things you don't comprehend.
 
Jul 2016
8,393
USA
#52
WRONG- Captialism created the era of the robber barons, child labor, and owing your entire life to the company store.

Workers Around the western world, from the US to Russia revolted against the excesses of captialism and the result was labor riots, and the rise of communist movements. Britain, france and the US ONLY avoided a communist revolution thru the legalization of labor unions.
It was labor unions that gave us weekends off. Labor inions and strikes that gave us decent pay and benefits.
But even that could not stop Captialism from bankrupting the world thru stupid stock speculation scams in 29.

And what was Captialisms answer to the crash? Do Nothing.
By 1932 the entire western world was in a depression.

On this wave FDR and the democrats swept to power and instituted socialist systems for getting the people working again. They created social security and RAISED taxes on the rich- they REGULATED banks- and they borrowed money to build the infrastructure that, ten year later, would be the sole reason US industry was able to massively outproduce every other nation combined to end WWII.

ALL of that, Socialism.

And when that war was won, it was government socialism that created the VA to take care of vets, that provided the G.I. Bill to help veterans into home ownership.
It was Socialism that created the Home Mortgage interest deduction- that Enabled americans to own their own home... ( y'know- the deduction the GOP in the US just took away to the surprise of many middle class americans who saw their taxes go UP by thousands of dollars after being told they would get a tax cut? )

It was socialism that built the interstate highway system- NOT private enterprise- and that highway system TRIPLED the GDP of the US permanently.

Oh, and it was socialism that landed men on the moon.


So, seriously... if you don't understand a concept such as collective action by government using taxpayer funds to benefit the entire community, state or nation, then you really ought not be making unsupported pronouncements about what captialism has done.

Socialism can not Replace capitalism- that would be disastrous.
But capitalism, all on its own, is ALSO disastrous.

The interests of the individual MUST be BALANCED with the interests of the community for a decent society to thrive.

Stop demonizing things you don't comprehend.
LOL, so there was no capitalism before company towns and robber barons. Adorable.

I'm sure you and your socialist buddies will get it perfect next time. All you need is total power and you'll surely get it right the next time!
 
Jun 2016
1,745
England, 200 yards from Wales
#53
OK, I can't speak about what happened in the US, but judging by what I recall here at that time I wonder why people have been talking about hippies. They (and I knew a few) were a pretty mixed bunch, some complete idiots some idealists, but they were not the ones who made the big changes of the '60's, they were more a sort of froth on the top.
It was politicians (influenced by all sorts of campaigners, not just hippies) who legalised homosexuality, acted against racism, demanded equal pay and work opportunities for women.
Was it a whole change of zeitgeist? Could such things have been prevented? Maybe, but I'm glad they weren't.
 
Oct 2009
3,434
San Diego
#54
LOL, so there was no capitalism before company towns and robber barons. Adorable.

I'm sure you and your socialist buddies will get it perfect next time. All you need is total power and you'll surely get it right the next time!

Keep LOLling... There has ALWAYS been capitalism in every human culture. IT has ALWAYS been a source of both innovation, And Oppression.
Whenever the haves get a little TOO greedy and start to take too much for themselves, because they can afford to buy off politicians, police, and courts, then the world starts to go downhill until the people have to revolt to try and regain some semblance of balance.

I could list for you all the myriad cons, scams, and economic catastrophes that have occurred whenever any nation allows capitalism to run amok, unregulated. Teapot dome? The Tulip Bulb catastrophe? The French Revolution?
That is the dark side of capitalism.

And, as I wrote and you apparently are not literate enough to read, I don't want a totally socialist system, either. I don't want ANY ideological imbecility to run the whole shebang.

What I want is for ignorant fanboys like you, who have been sold a rash of rich guy rationalizations, top try and learn what socialized systems actually are- RECOGNIZE how many of the things you utterly rely on in your life are actually socialism in action, and accept that just as socialism is not the answer to all needs, neither is capitalism the answer to all needs.

We are a society. On a HISTORY forum you have no excuse for being so ignorant of what ALWAYS happens when the rich take too much and the masses go without. Revolutions happen. The haves get dragged from their mansions and their heads get chopped off.

Do you really want to keep fanboying for capitalism to the point that the world economy goes into a convergent series and major political upheavals make survival iffy for EVERYONE?

Try growing a lobe and thinking... less with the extremist shilling for the ownership class. You have failed to answer a single point of how socialized the US and other western democracies already are. And that they were MORESO when things were going better for the middle and lower classes.

The people who founded the US purposely did NOT hand power directly to those who owned land and wealth. Rather, they did everything in their power to craft a constitution than gave the People the power to police the avarice of ownership.
They wanted an END to aristocracy.


But hey- you keep right on with LOL and having zero actual rebuttal... bumper sticker talking points handed to you by Rupert Murdock and the Koch bros, who play you like a calliope.