What was the most free and independent society for women in pre-modern times?

Sep 2014
968
Texas
The women of Sparta were very free compared to everybody.
The Natchez had a matriarichal society where the Sun King did not descend from the father but the mother. His sister was the mother of the next Sun King. Native Americans as a whole did not consider the work of women as inferior to the work of men.
The more primitive the society the better the women had it as a whole. The Sarmatians/Scythians and Sakas (covering my bases) had quite a bit of freedom on the steppes, but moving into towns messed it up for them....in my humble opinion the women of the Dahae had more freedom when they were following their herds than when they created the Parthian Empire.

And blaming Christianity for the problems is a mistake. The Athenians were molesting little boys and treating women like crap long before Christianity arose. What Christianity did was give the disenfranchised something they could believe in....women actually had it better under Christianity in Greece than they did in the pagan one. I have said in the past a religion can not usurp an established one unless it gave the people something more.
 
Aug 2019
105
Netherlands
The women of Sparta were very free compared to everybody.
The Natchez had a matriarichal society where the Sun King did not descend from the father but the mother. His sister was the mother of the next Sun King. Native Americans as a whole did not consider the work of women as inferior to the work of men.
The more primitive the society the better the women had it as a whole. The Sarmatians/Scythians and Sakas (covering my bases) had quite a bit of freedom on the steppes, but moving into towns messed it up for them....in my humble opinion the women of the Dahae had more freedom when they were following their herds than when they created the Parthian Empire.

And blaming Christianity for the problems is a mistake. The Athenians were molesting little boys and treating women like crap long before Christianity arose. What Christianity did was give the disenfranchised something they could believe in....women actually had it better under Christianity in Greece than they did in the pagan one. I have said in the past a religion can not usurp an established one unless it gave the people something more.
Well, most society's around the mediteranean are/were very patriarchal in character, some even more than forms of christianity. But then to say that patriarchal problems are not caused by christianity in europe i find strange. Aren't all high positions in christianity only reserved for men?Some of those positions are officially even called patriarchs.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,511
Netherlands
Well, most society's around the mediteranean are/were very patriarchal in character, some even more than forms of christianity. But then to say that patriarchal problems are not caused by christianity in europe i find strange. Aren't all high positions in christianity only reserved for men?Some of those positions are officially even called patriarchs.
Any high positions reserved for women in the Roman empire? Or any high positions reserved for women in the Germanic societies?
 
Aug 2019
105
Netherlands
Any high positions reserved for women in the Roman empire? Or any high positions reserved for women in the Germanic societies?
Sometimes in both cultures they had a certain status or authority but in christianity no.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,511
Netherlands
Sometimes in both cultures they had a certain status or authority but in christianity no.
I would argue the opposite. In normal society women could only obtain authority by marrying and ending up with a dead husband. In the church they could become nuns and abbesses (weird word btw) and by that become a person of authority.
Another often overlooked aspect of the church is that when a woman got widowed often the church would send someone to support her in the daily running and ward off nobles that would try and usurp land. Obviously a woman herself cant do that;)
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,249
Sydney
in the western tradition there were plenty of women rulers who held their own
while male was the default choice , a woman could rule and that was considered quite appropriate if she had the right bloodline
women could inherit land which is quite remarkable and rare in ancient society

as for the church helping widows , that also was to take advantage of it for themselves
medieval church was greedy to a remarkable degree

a better example of women rights was the Beguine movement of North West Europe