What was the most free and independent society for women in pre-modern times?

Oct 2017
339
America ??
Do y’all think there are any significant differences between the genders, in all areas; socially as well as psychologically/neurologically/biologically?
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,175
Sydney
" Do y’all think there are any significant differences between the genders, in all areas; socially as well as psychologically/neurologically/biologically? "

Dhoo ! same same with a twist

if you humiliate a women it feel the same as a man , if you hurt them it feel the same as a man
they are more verbal in the way they fight and don't understand that men are more physical , that totally freak them out

with violence as a no go , lies , smartness and dissimulation is their best option ,
they have the weapons of the weak , which are very powerful
they will ALWAYS try to manipulate men and use them as a tool
they are way smarter than men at many levels and abysmally stupid at many others
always listen to them , they will tell you how to read people
but don't do what they say unless you think about it for a while and it seems like a good advice
they are strong ally , valuable friends and deadly enemies
it's just the way it is ,

they are vicious when cornered , so don't corner them
if you love them for what they are , faults and all , not as a mummy or a saint but just as a human being
they will be Soo grateful you will get back problems
 
Aug 2019
102
Netherlands
I would argue the opposite. In normal society women could only obtain authority by marrying and ending up with a dead husband. In the church they could become nuns and abbesses (weird word btw) and by that become a person of authority.
Another often overlooked aspect of the church is that when a woman got widowed often the church would send someone to support her in the daily running and ward off nobles that would try and usurp land. Obviously a woman herself cant do that;)
Women could inheret their father's status too in the pre roman germanic world, and sometimes including being a tribal leader. They could also be priestesses.

Do nuns qualify as an "authority"?
I don't know. I guess feministic authority in the historical sense is a give and take over times but were in terms of hierarchy absent in the church i think.

in the western tradition there were plenty of women rulers who held their own
while male was the default choice , a woman could rule and that was considered quite appropriate if she had the right bloodline
women could inherit land which is quite remarkable and rare in ancient society

as for the church helping widows , that also was to take advantage of it for themselves
medieval church was greedy to a remarkable degree

a better example of women rights was the Beguine movement of North West Europe
The old britons had some infamous women leaders, yes, even in war times they led men. Also the germanic sitones had a woman leader.
 
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Feb 2017
217
Canada
Could you make an argument for ancient Rome - solely due to the economic freedom it provided?

In some instances the indigenous may have had more respect for women, but were indigenous women more 'free' in the strictest sense of the term?
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,495
Netherlands
Women could inheret their father's status too in the pre roman germanic world, and sometimes including being a tribal leader. They could also be priestesses.
That is educated guesswork. And doesn't really differ from eg the deeply Christian Byzantine empire.
Do nuns qualify as an "authority"?
I don't know. I guess feministic authority in the historical sense is a give and take over times but were in terms of hierarchy absent in the church i think.
You definitely had some women, just check the saints list. An abbess did have quite some authority, though obviously not at the level of a bishop.
I am not saying it was an emancipated society, just that it doesn't differ much from Roman or Barbaric times.
The old britons had some infamous women leaders, yes, even in war times they led men. Also the germanic sitones had a woman leader.
As my alter ego says:
Male Chauvinistic Pig said:
Which is why the Britons disappeared from history.
 
Sep 2014
957
Texas
Well, most society's around the mediteranean are/were very patriarchal in character, some even more than forms of christianity. But then to say that patriarchal problems are not caused by christianity in europe i find strange. Aren't all high positions in christianity only reserved for men?Some of those positions are officially even called patriarchs.
Christianity was greatly influenced by Zoroasterism and the Greek culture which didn't consider women as useful for anything but breeding sons. Paul, who had the greatest influence in the early days did not believe women were equal to men. The Irish Christians if they had become dominant over Rome would have created a much better society for women not to mention ending slavery almost 1700 years before America got around to it.