What would Ottoman-Pakistani relations look like?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,692
SoCal
What would relations between a surviving Ottoman Empire (for instance, let's say there is either no WWI, a WWI where the Ottomans join and the CPs win, or a WWI where the Ottomans stay out and thus survive regardless of which side wins) and Pakistan (if it is still eventually created in this scenario) look like?

Would these two countries form an alliance against Shiite Persia/Iran?

Also, would Pakistan send a lot of guest workers to the Ottoman Empire once oil is discovered there?

In addition to this, would the Ottomans also try building nuclear weapons in this scenario like the Pakistanis would likely try to do?
 
Apr 2018
709
India
Wish it were true. At the very least the entire islamic world would have been spared the identity and reputation crisis it faces today. I mean if we go back in time and tell anyone that 2-300 years hence Najdi Salafis will reign supreme over the two holy cities, it might result in a heart attack epidemic in the muslim world.
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,860
Western Eurasia
I'm not sure if there would be necessarily hostility toward Iran. AFAK the last armed border conflict between the Ottomans and Iran was in the 1830s, after that the 2 countries started to get along, they both saw the common external threat of European imperialism, the question of modernizing the state, and there was a more or less continous rapprochement between each other (there was one diplomatic crisis around Jamaladdin al- Afghani in the late 19th century, but things normalized again by the beginning of the 20th century).
Iran-Pakistan relations were also rather good, at least before 1979.
In your scenario i could rather see a common anti-British or anti-Russian/Soviet alliance between the 3 countries...
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,692
SoCal
I'm not sure if there would be necessarily hostility toward Iran. AFAK the last armed border conflict between the Ottomans and Iran was in the 1830s, after that the 2 countries started to get along, they both saw the common external threat of European imperialism, the question of modernizing the state, and there was a more or less continous rapprochement between each other (there was one diplomatic crisis around Jamaladdin al- Afghani in the late 19th century, but things normalized again by the beginning of the 20th century).
Iran-Pakistan relations were also rather good, at least before 1979.
In your scenario i could rather see a common anti-British or anti-Russian/Soviet alliance between the 3 countries...
AFAIK the Persians were at one point in time close to entering WWI on the Entente side, though. I believe that Sean McMeekin talks about this in one of his books--though unfortunately I don't remember which book.

As for Britain, all of these countries are likely to need Britain's help protecting themselves against Russia or the Soviet Union (depending on how developments in Russia go in this TL). Thus, all of these three countries are unlikely to be hostile towards Britain or to antagonize Britain.

Of course, I do wonder--is Russia still going to be close to India in this TL? If so, that could be very interesting.
 
Jun 2018
526
New Hampshire
As an imperial power, the Ottoman Empire likely would have attempted to bring Pakistan into its sphere of influence, with the Ottomans being the dominant power. This scenario though would have only been possible in the immediate aftermath of the partition of the Indian subcontinent, when Pakistan was a militarily and economically backward nation, or at least compared to a hypothetically surviving Ottoman State. Such a scenario would however, not have been possible a few decades later when Pakistan increased in military and economic power. And certainly would not have been possible after the country acquired nuclear weapons.

In such a scenario, the two nations would probably form an alliance, with the Ottomans and Pakistan being more or less equal partners.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,692
SoCal
As an imperial power, the Ottoman Empire likely would have attempted to bring Pakistan into its sphere of influence, with the Ottomans being the dominant power. This scenario though would have only been possible in the immediate aftermath of the partition of the Indian subcontinent, when Pakistan was a militarily and economically backward nation, or at least compared to a hypothetically surviving Ottoman State. Such a scenario would however, not have been possible a few decades later when Pakistan increased in military and economic power. And certainly would not have been possible after the country acquired nuclear weapons.

In such a scenario, the two nations would probably form an alliance, with the Ottomans and Pakistan being more or less equal partners.
All of this appears to make sense. :)

Also, what do you think happens to Persia/Iran, Afghanistan, and India in such a scenario?
 
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Jun 2018
526
New Hampshire
Afghanistan likely is relegated to the position of client state in the Ottoman-Pakistan alliance, with the country hosting Ottoman military bases. Iran would be a rival though not necessarily hostile Shi'ite power leading its own regional power block. The Ottomans would most likely side with Pakistan in that country's rivalry with Hindu India. Perhaps with interesting results, since both the Ottoman Empire and Pakistan would have powerful militaries in this hypothetical scenario. India would either be isolated, or otherwise attempt to form a strategic alliance with Russia or even with its other rival China, in an attempt to level the playing field.
 
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Jun 2018
526
New Hampshire
The purpose of siding with Pakistan in its regional struggle with India would likely for the Ottomans have been an attempt to project their military power and political influence in southern Asia.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,692
SoCal
Afghanistan likely is relegated to the position of client state in the Ottoman-Pakistan alliance, with the country hosting Ottoman military bases.
Wouldn't Pakistani military bases in Afghanistan be much more likely?

Iran would be a rival though not necessarily hostile Shi'ite power leading its own regional power block.
Makes sense--though they might want to ally with the Ottomans and Pakistanis if they'll ever be threatened by Russia.

The Ottomans would most likely side with Pakistan in that country's rivalry with Hindu India. Perhaps with interesting results, since both the Ottoman Empire and Pakistan would have powerful militaries in this hypothetical scenario. India would either be isolated, or otherwise attempt to form a strategic alliance with Russia or even with its other rival China, in an attempt to level the playing field.
Agreed.

Also, do you think that India can still eventually separate Bangladesh from Pakistan in this scenario?

In addition, someone on Reddit proposed having Pakistan outright join the Ottoman Empire in this scenario since Pakistan is a Muslim state and since the Ottoman Empire was a Caliphate that was apparently meant to represent all Muslims worldwide. Still, I am skeptical of this considering that annexing Pakistan (plus Bangladesh, which was a part of Pakistan back then) would severely alter the demographic balance in the Ottoman Empire--and certainly not in favor of the Turks!
 
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