What would Ottoman-Pakistani relations look like?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,877
SoCal
#11
The purpose of siding with Pakistan in its regional struggle with India would likely for the Ottomans have been an attempt to project their military power and political influence in southern Asia.
Yeah, that makes sense.

BTW, is Pakistan going to be less dependent on China as an ally in this scenario considering that it would already have the Ottoman Empire on its side?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,877
SoCal
#13
BTW, do you think that both the Ottomans and the Pakistanis are likely to try promoting Muslim separatism in Russia in an attempt to weaken Russia's hold over Central Asia and Azerbaijan?
 
Jun 2018
210
New Hampshire
#14
Wouldn't Pakistani military bases in Afghanistan be much more likely?



Makes sense--though they might want to ally with the Ottomans and Pakistanis if they'll ever be threatened by Russia.



Agreed.

Also, do you think that India can still eventually separate Bangladesh from Pakistan in this scenario?

In addition, someone on Reddit proposed having Pakistan outright join the Ottoman Empire in this scenario since Pakistan is a Muslim state and since the Ottoman Empire was a Caliphate that was apparently meant to represent all Muslims worldwide. Still, I am skeptical of this considering that annexing Pakistan (plus Bangladesh, which was a part of Pakistan back then) would severely alter the demographic balance in the Ottoman Empire--and certainly not in favor of the Turks!
Perhaps Pakistani military bases would be more likely. Though I could just as easily envision these being a joint Ottoman-Pakistani enterprise, just like there are join American-British military bases in certain parts of the world today.

If the Iranians were threatened by Russia they likely would want to align with the Ottomans. However, if the prevailing Middle Eastern situation is still in place in your scenario (perhaps unlikely considering the huge factor of the Ottomans) then the Iranians would have little to fear from the Russians, since Russia and Iran are strategic allies.

Pakistan would certainly be less dependent upon China, and in fact in the scenario you propose, China may in fact be an ally of India due to the latter courting a strategic alliance.

India could certain try to sever Bangladesh from Pakistan, though with Pakistan's powerful Ottoman benefactor, such a scenario would have been extremely dangerous. With the Ottomans throwing their military might behind Pakistan, the conclusion of the first Indo-Pakistani War likely would have ended much differently. With a decisive Ottoman-Pakistani victory, the terms of which would include Pakistan gaining control over the coveted Kashmir region.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,877
SoCal
#15
Perhaps Pakistani military bases would be more likely. Though I could just as easily envision these being a joint Ottoman-Pakistani enterprise, just like there are join American-British military bases in certain parts of the world today.
Makes sense.

If the Iranians were threatened by Russia they likely would want to align with the Ottomans. However, if the prevailing Middle Eastern situation is still in place in your scenario (perhaps unlikely considering the huge factor of the Ottomans) then the Iranians would have little to fear from the Russians, since Russia and Iran are strategic allies.
Please keep in mind, though, that it's far from clear that wizards still come to power in Iran in this scenario. We are talking about a PoD in the 1910s--which is over sixty years before the Iranian Revolution.

Pakistan would certainly be less dependent upon China, and in fact in the scenario you propose, China may in fact be an ally of India due to the latter courting a strategic alliance.
China is probably going to want some territorial concessions from India in exchange for an alliance, though. After all, China dislikes the MacMahon Line.

India could certain try to sever Bangladesh from Pakistan, though with Pakistan's powerful Ottoman benefactor, such a scenario would have been extremely dangerous. With the Ottomans throwing their military might behind Pakistan, the conclusion of the first Indo-Pakistani War likely would have ended much differently. With a decisive Ottoman-Pakistani victory, the terms of which would include Pakistan gaining control over the coveted Kashmir region.
When was oil discovered in the Middle East? I suspect that the discovery of oil is necessary to make the Ottoman Empire extremely wealthy and powerful. I don't know if this discovery is going to come early enough for the Ottomans to be able to significantly help the Pakistanis out with Kashmir.

As for Bangladesh, please keep in mind that it was completely separated from Pakistan by thousands of kilometers of Indian territory. Such a territory isn't very easy to defend--which is why India was able to crush Pakistan in Bangladesh in 13 days in 1971 in real life. Even if the Ottomans are able to provide a lot of help, I'm very skeptical that they would be able to provide enough help to decisively shift the balance in Pakistan's favor in a war over Bangladesh.
 

Shaheen

Ad Honorem
May 2011
2,527
Sweden
#16
What would relations between a surviving Ottoman Empire (for instance, let's say there is either no WWI, a WWI where the Ottomans join and the CPs win, or a WWI where the Ottomans stay out and thus survive regardless of which side wins) and Pakistan (if it is still eventually created in this scenario) look like?

Would these two countries form an alliance against Shiite Persia/Iran?

Also, would Pakistan send a lot of guest workers to the Ottoman Empire once oil is discovered there?

In addition to this, would the Ottomans also try building nuclear weapons in this scenario like the Pakistanis would likely try to do?
Relations would be very good. Despite the regime changes and ups and downs in their respective fortunes, Turkish and Pakistani ties have always remained strong. The Khilafat Movement (in favor of the Ottoman Sultan) began in British India during the early 1900s and many of its leaders subsequently joined the Muslim League and the Pakistan movement. Soldiers hailing from Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (then NWFP) fighting in the British army during WW1 were more often than not transferred to fronts other than the Middle Eastern one due to mutinies and low morale when fighting against the Turks.

Distressed by the fact that Britain was at war with Turkey, the Light Infantry - consisting solely of Punjabi Muslims - revolted, killed their officers and seized control of Alexandra Barracks ...
Marshall of Singapore: A Biography - Kevin Tan - Google Books

On 23 February 1916, the 15th Lancers mutinied at Basra in Mesopotamia. This Muslim regiment had been recruited entirely from Multan, and their grievance was their concern that they would have to march from Basra against the holy places of Islam, especially Karbala. They asked instead that they be allowed to fight in Europe. Some 429 men were arrested and disarmed, then sentenced to transportation to the Andaman Islands. However, all except the ringleaders were released the following year.
page 242, True to Their Salt: Indigenous Personnel in Western Armed Forces, By Robert Johnson

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Turkey, Iran and Pakistan enjoyed excellent relations prior to 1979, so very unlikely that there would be any kind of alliance against Iran. Pakistani guest workers in the Ottoman Empire is less likely. The sole reason why the Gulf States need foreign manpower is because they lack their own. The Ottomans had no such problems. About nuclear weapons it depends entirely on what kind of security paradigm the Ottomans faced. If it was part of NATO like Turkey was in the real timeline, then NATO's nuclear umbrella would cover the Ottoman Empire as well meaning there would be no need for spending vast resources on developing nuclear weapons.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,877
SoCal
#17
Excellent analysis, @Shaheen! Anyway, I have a question for you--do you think that Pakistan, being founded as an Islamic state, would actually try joining the Ottoman Empire due to the Ottoman Sultan styling himself the Caliph of all Muslims? Personally, I consider this very unlikely for demographic reasons (there are way too many Pakistanis) and also due to the fact that there is no land connection between Pakistan and the Ottoman Empire. Anyway, what do you think?

Also, could the Ottoman Empire, Iran, and Pakistan create a formal alliance to try deterring any further Russian or Soviet (depending on whether the Bolshevik Revolution still occurs in this scenario) expansion to the south?