What's with all the Black washing?

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Closed
Dec 2015
3,605
USA
#11
I mean now not only Superman is going to be interpreted by a black african guy but even in the recent TV series Blacks are replacing systematically important European characters like Achilles, Zeus and even Aeneas in the new Series about Fall of Troy, then we have the black legionaries in Britannia, the Fake BBC Black Romans documentary , the Black Hannibal , Blacks are replacing historical and mythological white characters ... why?

Folks of African heritage have long been known and have long lived in European lands. Diversity has long been a part of European entertainment and literature. Read Othello by Shakespeare.



Note the various Catholic statues across Europe that depict men and women of African background. Christianity has been in Africa since the 4th century perhaps even since the days of Jesus.



https://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-Frumentius


Saint Frumentius, Amharic Abba Salama, (flourished 4th century, feast day October 27 in the Roman Catholic Church; November 30 in Eastern Orthodox churches; December 18th in the Coptic Church), Syrian apostle who worked to spread Christianity throughout Ethiopia.

Further it is well known that the Roman Empire had Arabs and Africans in the highest of positions. In the third century AD Philip The Arab was the Emperor of the Roman Empire.



Its totally undeniable, all one has to do is look at the maps of the ages, black and white folk have been intermingling for a long time. There is no black washing going on in modern day Hollywood. If anything what we are seeing is the beginnings of a go back to the times that were before the invention of race, this of course was the time of the middle ages and before that the Ancient ages where folks did not have a concept of a weaker race.
 
Jan 2009
1,234
#12
Again I have no problems with a black 007 because as you say that's a code name, "Jeffery Winter the new 007 played by Idris Elba" ........ all for it, new take on the role, new back story, James Bond has retired and "Jeffery Winter" is the replacement, where's the problem?

Simply put, "Jeffery Winter 007" won't put nearly as many butts in the seat as "James Bond 007". I don't see 'whiteness' as a defining character trait for James Bond. He is a suave, sexy superspy. And like I said, I consider 'James Bond' to be as much as a code name as '007'.


Frankly, I have no problem whatsoever with a black actor playing Hamlet, a Danish Prince. Or Romeo. Or Juliet.




Classic example, if you want a black Iron man = James Rhodes.

They even did it in the comics and it was a great run, Stark retired and Rhodes took over ....... but replacing Tony Stark for a black Tony Stark is poor form.
Yes, because 'Tony Stark' is not a code name. That being said, a reboot where Tony Stark is black would not get my knickers twisted in a bunch.



Samuel L. Jackson playing Nick Fury is just fine. Have you refused to watch any Marvel movies with him in them? Same thing with Thor and Idris Elba as Heimdall? Dr. Strange with Tilda Swinton playing the Ancient One?


Quite frankly I'm fed up of Lefty millennial's spoiling my entertainment and film / comic lore I grew up on with their political point scoring BS.
The simple fact is that the majority of the comics and films have been done with a white male in the lead. Original characters would be nice, but that is unfortunately not how Hollywood works.
 
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Dec 2015
3,605
USA
#13
........... yet James Bond isn't black, simple as that, and if a Director gave it the old "It's all fictional anyway" then fine, if your work is that flippant then why should I pay to watch it?

Again I have no problems with a black 007 because as you say that's a code name, "Jeffery Winter the new 007 played by Idris Elba" ........ all for it, new take on the role, new back story, James Bond has retired and "Jeffery Winter" is the replacement, where's the problem?

That's representation / diversity, their own original character, editing over a well established 40 yr old white character just reinforces that people of colour need to "copy" white people by stepping into their shoes instead of walking in their own, I thought Black Panther would of dispelled that myth.

Starring in a white characters role is lazy, devoid of ideas, politically inflammatory, not original and as a mixed race guy I find it insulting that Directors in Hollywood don't think a person of colour is worth their own original character.

Classic example, if you want a black Iron man = James Rhodes.

They even did it in the comics and it was a great run, Stark retired and Rhodes took over ....... but replacing Tony Stark for a black Tony Stark is poor form.

Quite frankly I'm fed up of Lefty millennial's spoiling my entertainment and film / comic lore I grew up on with their political point scoring BS.

On the same token by the way I refuse to watch "The Wall", "Gods of Egypt" and "Fall of Troy" ........ all for the same reasons.

What's a white guy doing in Ancient China? why are Egyptian Gods all white? why is Achilles black instead of Greek?

They can stick all those movies up their you know what ........

I have not watched Black Panther...which seems to me to be the first ever big budget black majority superhero movie produced in the USA. We do have Black Knight with Martin Lawrence but that was a Comedy film



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_(film)


If Black Knight was redone it could be a massive hit IMO.





I for one find films of today to not measure up to those of the past. TBH, I enjoy some US and Soviet era films of the 1940s and 1950s...these films such as Gone with The Wind, Its a Wonderful Life or The Fall of Berlin come with a emotionally moving story and soundtrack the likes of which we do not often see today. It also should be noted that the film industry in the USA is itself quite diverse, even the Trumpsters have money in the US film industry where we see pro conservative and pro Democratic documentaries produced on a daily basis.



Just note the huge amount of pro Evangelical film featuring mainly white characters produced in the USA.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Not_Dead_(film)


These low budget films can be great hits^


Take also Breaking Bad, a hugely popular TV series in the USA which had a diverse audience but the main characters were mostly white. Neither the so called left or right has a greater influence on Hollywood IMO. While we may have films such as Black Panther and the New Rocky film had a black main character.....I do hope for the future, that black folks are depicted more so in films and TV series discussing the middle ages in Europe. That would be something that could be helpful that is to see more folks of African background being depicted as Catholics or other Christians of the middle ages. It would be nice to see a film on one of the many Ethiopian Christian leaders of history.




I can say in a few episodes of History Channels Knightfall which depicts the middle ages...we see at times black European Christian Knights...this I take no issue with and in fact see this type of casting as being Representative of the diverse history of Catholicism.
 
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GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,321
Wirral
#14
The evil agenda at work.

It would be funny to see Martin Luther King played by a blonde, blue-eyed actor. :)
I’ve said it before when there was a long debate about this not very long ago. As far as I’m concerned a director can cast a character however he likes and the public can vote with their feet however they wish. I saw a Hamlet with several black actors in it recently and it was absolutely fine, it is possible to look beyond the colour of somebody’s skin and see the character underneath.
 
Dec 2015
2,512
USA
#15
I take issue with everyone of your points.
Of course you do.

Firstly the "reason" for all this is the push for diversity is hot topic among the Left Wing of the world who have pretty much taken over our media industry, millennial's in particular born in the 90's and 2000 are starting to creep into job roles that control what we watch and have influenced the leaning left seniors ........ we're being spoon fed this as agenda.
The media isn't left, nor is it right, it's just the media, and the media is a conglomerate of different syndicates, studios, publishers, writers, companies, providers, and producers. It's not a monolithic entity and it doesn't have an agenda other than to get as many viewers as possible.

Now, let's just assume that there is some leftist conspiracy; so what? How is having more black actors in roles a bad thing? No one's actually explained that just yet and black people exist after all.

Superman - "Superman is an alien from another planet. He's not human. He could have skinny-silver skin and green hair if the writers really wanted Kryptonians like that"
But they didn't ......... and 50 years of comics have him depicted as Clark Kent and to CB fans he is visually recognizable.
Either keep to the source material or don't call it Superman simple as that, unless you've been a comic book reader you wouldn't understand and in all fairness ......... not qualified to hold an opinion as the whole industry is only here because of comic book readers, both today and historically.
And when did Superman first appear? 1938. There were little to no main roles played by blacks back then other than as side characters or comedy relief. Like I said, him being white is just convention, there's no in-universe justification for it. He's an alien; he can have any skin tone possible.

Fall of Troy - Another PC driven ridiculous depiction, the Left rob one minority for another, instead of showing a Greek they insert a black man for giggles and controversy because to them and their racially selfish views the world is Black & White, as someone who is neither I find their views of someone with White privilege who treat black people like a University subject rather than people.
This is why I also haven't and won't watch this program, I don't want a spoonful of politics with my entertainment and I won't rob one minority for another just to troll the Right.
A black man in Greece is likely to be a slave, this is just facts, Achilles is supposed to be Greek of standing as far as I recall, a noble, a man in charge of the Myrmidons how is an African in ancient Greece going to be a Greek noble?
Its just not authentic.
It's not meant to be authentic. Even then, Achilles wasn't a real person, the Trojan War is mostly a myth. No one ever claimed that the show would be accurate or realistic, so the people complaining about the casting really didn't pay attention to production. Again, it's the BBC, racial inclusivity and diversity is kind of their brand.

Hannibal's ethnicity is not "hot debate" .......... I'd bet my house he is a North African of native Berber / Moorish stock same as all the other Carthage majority.
And some people who are native Berber/Moorish stock do have dark black skin. There are plenty of dark-skinned, thick-featured North Africans, both in our time and in the past. Berbers are not homogenous and they've been influenced by peoples all across Africa and beyond. It's improbable, but if Hannibal had Berber ancestry there's a distinct chance he would essentially "pass" as black African.
 
#17
Simply put, "Jeffery Winter 007" won't put nearly as many butts in the seat as "James Bond 007". I don't see 'whiteness' as a defining character trait for James Bond. He is a suave, sexy superspy. And like I said, I consider 'James Bond' to be as much as a code name as '007'.
James Bond was revealed as being from an old Scottish family so your basically going to mess with the continuity of a character who's been depicted as white for 50 years.

Again its "you" under selling an original black character, its you who has the trouble believing that 007 can be anyone bar James Bond, people flock to see James Bond, but Bond whether you like it or not is white, the audience are not blind, this sort of nonsense can turn people off rather than make them flock to it.

A black 007 can be all those things you mentioned and more, why does he need to named after a white character?

Samuel L. Jackson playing Nick Fury is just fine. Have you refused to watch any Marvel movies with him in them? Same thing with Thor and Idris Elba as Heimdall? Dr. Strange with Tilda Swinton playing the Ancient One?
Sorry, Nick Fury is taken from Fury from the Ultimates, it has source material and so is fine.
Heimdall and the Ancient one are not A class characters even to comic book fans ........... if this sort of thing didn't matter then why is it the studios don't make a Chinese Thor or a Black Cap America, all this talk is just dancing around the core truth of it, which is when I pick up a comic book I can tell who's who even out of costume because its character recognition as they have been depicted for 50 years ........ change that and its not the character of the source material, its not about me not wanting racial swaps its about the visuals to me won't be from the source material so its a throw away character and I won't be interested, simple as that.

Again I say this as a non-white person.


The simple fact is that the majority of the comics and films have been done with a white male in the lead. Original characters would be nice, but that is unfortunately not how Hollywood works.
So again think laterally, Marvel has hundreds of characters of colour, all worth their weight in gold, all that matters is who they put to the forefront, the question isn't "They don't have them" they do have them.

Yes lots of Marvel hero's are white males but replacing the actual character with a black male doesn't make that better, it means this Steve Rogers you have as a black man isn't Steve Rogers to me no matter what you call him.

Comics are visual, they are not just words on paper, character recognition is a massive part of what fans relate to over the years.

Again you want diversity, I'm all for it, I'd like to see more characters on screen who look more like I do but I don't want to see a brown or Asian Bruce Banner.

Colleen Wing (is now also Iron Fist), Quake, May, Nick Fury, Falcon, Cage, Black Panther, War Machine, Blade, New Ghost Rider Reyes.

Etc, the characters are there, you just need to mine them and put them front and centre, Black Panther is the 3rd highest selling Marvel movie to date.

Don't sell characters of colour short, they don't need to fill white shoes ........ they have their own shoes.
 
Likes: chean
#18
Now, let's just assume that there is some leftist conspiracy; so what? How is having more black actors in roles a bad thing? No one's actually explained that just yet and black people exist after all.
Nobody is saying that, as half white / half arabic I support more roles of diversity, but what I don't support is this "awww sympathy" vote that we need to fill white roles, its an insult imo, coloured roles exist and those characters should be brought forward.
For e.g isn't the new Star Wars Jedi a girl right? so do we need a black Luke Skywalker or just have a new Jedi? the argument that we have to assimilate an existing visually depicted character is retarded and comes across more as trolling to p off the Right and create negative controversy more than anything.

And when did Superman first appear? 1938. There were little to no main roles played by blacks back then other than as side characters or comedy relief. Like I said, him being white is just convention, there's no in-universe justification for it. He's an alien; he can have any skin tone possible.
50 years of character recognition say otherwise, you can't get away from that, all the comics, all the films, the decades, a black Clark Kent is simply not Clark Kent, doesn't mean you can't have a black Superman just not Clark Kent.

Also about the characters being all white in the 60's, completely ignoring all the characters who've been made since?

It's not meant to be authentic. Even then, Achilles wasn't a real person, the Trojan War is mostly a myth. No one ever claimed that the show would be accurate or realistic, so the people complaining about the casting really didn't pay attention to production. Again, it's the BBC, racial inclusivity and diversity is kind of their brand.
So why steal the rare Greek role from Greek mythology to a black man? how is that any different than making Scar Jo "Ghost in the Shell"? again by thinking the world is only black & white that is an insult to someone like me, inserting a black person is the tool of Left wing SJW's who treat black PEOPLE like a College subject.

And some people who are native Berber/Moorish stock do have dark black skin. There are plenty of dark-skinned, thick-featured North Africans, both in our time and in the past. Berbers are not homogenous and they've been influenced by peoples all across Africa and beyond. It's improbable, but if Hannibal had Berber ancestry there's a distinct chance he would essentially "pass" as black African.
In your eyes "assuming your white" however as half my family is Arabic believe me I can tell the difference.
Of course there were dark north Africans, same as their where dark nubians in Egypt, that's not disputed.
But for a black African to rise in Carthaginian society to the role of general of the Cities forces is ......... in a nut shell ....... impossible.
He could of been dark skinned that is definitely a probability but lets be honest about how cultures see each other along tribal lines, theirs a social ladder and a North African who is not from a noble Carthage family is highly unlikely to have the connections to make sole Commander of the Royal army.
However again that has more credence than the achillies one.

Look its like this, if you throw source material to the wind and treat the film like a political point scoring exercise ......... then I'm not interested, a lot of others will feel the same, and I know a lot of white people certainly will.

If you depict Henry the VIII as Chinese ........ I'm not going to watch it.

would you?
 
Jul 2016
9,327
USA
#19
If its not truly interfering with history, or its not central to the story, then I don't care, as long as its a good actor chosen.

Black Achilles was fine, Troy: Fall of a City wasn't historically accurate, didn't even really follow the Iliad or Epic Cycle all that well, and wasn't cast well otherwise at all. The actor playing Achilles was probably the best in the whole show.

Black James Bond could work because I think the idea that James Bond is one person is truly stupid, it should just be the name associated with the MI4 agent assigned the 007 identity. The actor they were floating around, Idris Elba, is quite talented, though at this point a little old. Better than Roger Moore...

Black Superman could work. Michael B. Jordan is a good actor, and there is nothing central to the idea that Superman has to be White. Changing 1930s era comic book ideas originally marketed to 12 year olds isn't something that should be shocking to modern Americans.

But other times, its ridiculous. I saw previews for the new Mary Queen of Scots movie, equally pissing me off was a black member of parliament, an Asian lady in waiting, and Mary herself speaking with a Scottish brogue instead of a heavy French accent. Insulting to history. Same with Black Hannibal of Black Cleopatra. No need to include that, its just casting for sake of virtue signaling or propaganda.

Furthermore, how come when a movie or tv series about Ancient Rome, they pick the English actors as Roman and pick people with actual Italian accents to play foreign slaves? Most Roman or Greek movies aren't even taken seriously without an English cast.
 
Likes: HiddenHistory
Oct 2013
14,293
Europix
#20
Shakespeare's "Othello" was written in 1603. First non-white comedian playing Othello was Ira Aldridge, in 1833.

And the Holly father is still painted "caucasian" .


Just sayin' ...
 
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