When could the Jews build a larger state than Israel?

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,418
Florania
#1
The early modern period sounded like a golden opportunity to establish a larger state;
much of the fertile lands remained unoccupied and undeveloped.

In real historical setting, Jews only reestablished their state after World War II.
Could the Jews seize the golden opportunity of early modern period
and establish a larger state?

Khazaria is considered the largest Jewish state ever,
and the Kingdom of Simien was larger than the Omride Kingdom of Israel
or any alleged historical Jewish states in the Middle East.

Why did the Jews insist on Palestine?

(Note: Such format is for the ease of reading; it is not that poetic).
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,084
#3
The early modern period sounded like a golden opportunity to establish a larger state;
much of the fertile lands remained unoccupied and undeveloped.

In real historical setting, Jews only reestablished their state after World War II.
Could the Jews seize the golden opportunity of early modern period
and establish a larger state?

Khazaria is considered the largest Jewish state ever,
and the Kingdom of Simien was larger than the Omride Kingdom of Israel
or any alleged historical Jewish states in the Middle East.

Why did the Jews insist on Palestine?

(Note: Such format is for the ease of reading; it is not that poetic).
Short answer they were not particularly and the whole is just confluence of factors,

consider 4 different groups of people.

(1) Zionists Leadership

The Zionsits ledership (pre ww1) were mostly pragmatic and while not wedded to a new Jewish state in the middle east basically went with it because the other groups were easier to motivate on this basis. It was easier to find immigrants, money and governments willing to let it happen. So sometime before ww1 most of the Zionist leadership had come around to a Jewish state in the middle east as it seemed the easiest vehicle to mobilize resources for.

(2) Jewish Emigrants

The Vast majority of Jewish immigrants cared little for a Jewish state and just left Europe for a better life. Overwhelmingly chose the Americas when they had a reasonably free choice. The Late 1920s more Jews were leaving Palestine than Arriving. But with the depression came the closing of doors to immigrants and Palestine despite various pressures was a remaining semi door. Idealism about the link to historic Israel was not particularly strong driving force but it they wanted out of Europe particularly eastern Europe and it was somewhere they could go,


(3) Financial backers.
Both very rich individuals and a mass small donors from Jewish communities were willing to dip into their pockets for Jewish stetlement (state or not) in Palestine. This funding was not available anywhere near as readily as elsewhere.

(4) Various Governments.

It was that the British government was willingly to issue the Balfour declaration and the creation of a Jewish Agency that really fixed the focus on a middle eastern state. Givernments are just not that keen of the creation of a shadow state within there borders. british support may heve heavily hedged and somewhat tranistory, but comared to what was offer elsewhere it was a semi open door however problematic to a bunch of closed doors.
 
Likes: Futurist
Jul 2019
107
New Jersey
#4
Alleged Jewish states in the Middle East? What's that supposed to mean?

The Jews couldn't create a state before the modern period because they had no political clout or effective international communication. And the reason why, when Jewish nationalism did become a thing, the Jews chose Palestine should be quite obvious - Judea (or Yehuda or for that matter, Yisrael) always was considered by the Jews to be their ancestral homeland. For millenia, Jews have prayed thrice-daily that God return them to Zion and Jerusalem.

Re: Khazaria - it's not clear just how much of the population embraced Judaism. If I recall correctly most modern scholarship maintains that only a small group of elites converted to Judaism, and the Judaism they practiced was rather syncretic with their old pagan beliefs.
 
Likes: Futurist

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,418
Florania
#5
Alleged Jewish states in the Middle East? What's that supposed to mean?

The Jews couldn't create a state before the modern period because they had no political clout or effective international communication. And the reason why, when Jewish nationalism did become a thing, the Jews chose Palestine should be quite obvious - Judea (or Yehuda or for that matter, Yisrael) always was considered by the Jews to be their ancestral homeland. For millenia, Jews have prayed thrice-daily that God return them to Zion and Jerusalem.

Re: Khazaria - it's not clear just how much of the population embraced Judaism. If I recall correctly most modern scholarship maintains that only a small group of elites converted to Judaism, and the Judaism they practiced was rather syncretic with their old pagan beliefs.
I don't know if jesusneverexisted.com is a particularly reliable source; if it is reliable, the Jewish kingdoms in the Middle East were likely smallish tribal kingdoms that left very little archaeological signs, if any.
Kingdom of Simien was in current Ethiopia.
 
Likes: Futurist
Jul 2019
107
New Jersey
#6
I don't know if jesusneverexisted.com is a particularly reliable source; if it is reliable, the Jewish kingdoms in the Middle East were likely smallish tribal kingdoms that left very little archaeological signs, if any.
Kingdom of Simien was in current Ethiopia.
I'm pretty sure that site is not accurate. The Kingdoms of Judah and Israel are amply documented in numerous ancient inscriptions, whether Babylonian, Hebrew, or Moabite. And the Second Commonwealth (c. 500 BCE - 70 CE) is extensively discussed by both Greeks and Romans. Like, really extensively. The Roman campaigns against Judea were some of their hardest fought.
 
Likes: Futurist

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