When could the Jews build a larger state than Israel?

#31
Your words, his words - it makes no difference. It's untrue. Here's a news story that corroborates what I'm saying.

In other words, you have no intention of doing any research to substantiate your claims beyond invoking some guy you saw on TV a while back. Nice.

That about 90% of Ashkenazim (and 100% of Sepharadim) aren't descended from the Khazars? Is that what you've been saying all along?

Well, in that case perhaps you can engage more extensively than quoting an unnamed Jew who you once saw on TV?
The date was given by a poster on this forum ........ not the guy on TV.

I didn't give any % on Ashkenazi DNA, you've been doing all that.

There's obviously not zero. Nobody's disputing that conversions have historically happened. Nonetheless, only a very small minority of Ashkenazi Jews (12% according to this paper) have a distinctly European haplotype which may be from the Khazars. In any event, here is another academic paper demonstrating the shared middle eastern heritage of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.
Back to the subject.

Do you believe or suspect then as the Khazar state dissolved before the date you gave approx 100 yrs earlier of the Polish settlement your referring to, that some Khazar refugee settlers may have already started a small settlement there which could of led to a bigger settlement destination as per the one your describing from the Italian Jews?

If not how would we even explain the possible 12% DNA you mentioned earlier?
 
Jul 2019
283
New Jersey
#32
Do you believe or suspect then as the Khazar state dissolved before the date you gave approx 100 yrs earlier of the Polish settlement your referring to, that some Khazar refugee settlers may have already started a small settlement there which could of led to a bigger settlement destination as per the one your describing from the Italian Jews?

If not how would we even explain the possible 12% DNA you mentioned earlier?
The paper I linked indicates that the "European" Jews likely descended from only a handful of Khazars. I will dig through it and try to find the pertinent passage.

Edit: it wasn't the linked paper, it was this paper. Here's the quote:

"However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim."

In any event, I've conclusively demonstrated that the vast majority of Jews are indeed of middle eastern origin, and that attempts to paint them as Central Asians are unfounded.
 
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Likes: Futurist
Apr 2010
34,429
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#33
Because this is extremely pertinent and not racially charged? I don't see why the moderators can't apply the old SCOTUS definition of obscenity: "I know it when I see it."
Believe me, population migrations with genetics have been a cause of many a conflict on this forum.

The rule is as stated. The discussion of genetics is not permitted on the forum. Not "is not permitted except when...".
 
Likes: Futurist
May 2014
19,746
SoCal
#34
Believe me, population migrations with genetics have been a cause of many a conflict on this forum.

The rule is as stated. The discussion of genetics is not permitted on the forum. Not "is not permitted except when...".
Discussion of genetics isn't only heated on this forum; rather, it's also heated in real life as well. For instance, take a look at the reaction that Arthur Jensen got when he advocated in favor of the hereditarian hypothesis in a 1969 article of his.
 
#35
The paper I linked indicates that the "European" Jews likely descended from only a handful Khazars. I will dig through it and try to find the pertinent passage.

In any event, I've conclusively demonstrated that the vast majority of Jews are indeed of middle eastern origin, and that attempts to paint them as Central Asians are unfounded.
I never once argued that or percentages.

As for you asking me to bring some factual information, I had a look back on my previous discussion and this was the info we went over ................

History of the Jews in Poland - Wikipedia

They started appearing in Poland from 966 AD ......... Khazaria was first attacked in 965 AD and finished off in 969 AD.

The traditional date given and I think the one you are referring to for the Polish settlement is 1095 AD but the info above gives a date of 1 year after Khazaria was attacked and in a 900m journey (12 days of walking) my theory when I was studying the Khazars was that refugees from Khazaria could easily have started the Poland settlements.

As I said it tallies up way to close to be ignored, in time, location etc and now you've given the 12% ratio, I find that fascinating that Khazarian Jews could of started or ended up in the same country as older ancestry Jews of a different heritage.

.............. what's your thoughts on the original Jewish settlers who came to Khazaria before the Khazars converted, do you think they were also original Levant Jews? their proximity is close enough.
 
Jul 2019
283
New Jersey
#36
I never once argued that or percentages.

As for you asking me to bring some factual information, I had a look back on my previous discussion and this was the info we went over ................

History of the Jews in Poland - Wikipedia

They started appearing in Poland from 966 AD ......... Khazaria was first attacked in 965 AD and finished off in 969 AD.

The traditional date given and I think the one you are referring to for the Polish settlement is 1095 AD but the info above gives a date of 1 year after Khazaria was attacked and in a 900m journey (12 days of walking) my theory when I was studying the Khazars was that refugees from Khazaria could easily have started the Poland settlements.

As I said it tallies up way to close to be ignored, in time, location etc and now you've given the 12% ratio, I find that fascinating that Khazarian Jews could of started or ended up in the same country as older ancestry Jews of a different heritage.

.............. what's your thoughts on the original Jewish settlers who came to Khazaria before the Khazars converted, do you think they were also original Levant Jews? their proximity is close enough.

The Wikipedia article is referring to the Raddhanites - itinerant Jewish merchants. The same article is quite clear that they did not live in Poland; they merely passed through along the Silk Road. The next three sentences literally say that: "The first actual mention of Jews in Polish chronicles occurs in the 11th century. It appears that Jews were then living in Gniezno, at that time the capital of the Polish kingdom of the Piast dynasty. Among the first Jews to arrive in Poland (in 1097 or 1098) were those banished from Prague. The first permanent Jewish community is mentioned in 1085 by a Jewish scholar Jehuda ha-Kohen in the city of Przemyƛl."

In other words, there was no Jewish community in Poland until the late 11th century, over a century after Khazaria's fall. As I've mentioned in a response above, we only have the biological footprint of a handful of Khazars, and a handful of people does not a community make.

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We really know very little about the conversion of the Khazars. It seems most likely to me that whatever Jews they were acquainted with came from Babylon, as that was the nerve center of the Jewish world at the time.
 

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