When did the British class system 'end'?

Nov 2008
639
Melbourne, Australia
#32
A constitutional monarchy is not necessarily "less democratic" than a republic. In fact if you take a headcount of all the republics in the world - not just the good ones - most don't even vaguely resemble democracies, whereas practically all the constitutional monarchies are.
If they are not democratic, then they are not actually "Republics" are they. Despite what they call themselves. In any case, I was referring to absolute rather than constitutional monarchies.
 

Edgewaters

Ad Honorem
Jul 2007
9,098
Canada
#33
If they are not democratic, then they are not actually "Republics" are they.
Of course they are. A republic doesn't have to be democratic. They are not synonymous terms at all - the US, for example, has always officially maintained that it is a constitutional republic, to distinguish itself from a democracy. John Adams defined a republic simply as a "government of more than one person".
 
Last edited:

Black Dog

Ad Honorem
Mar 2008
9,990
Damned England
#34
And, of course, the USSR was a self proclaimed republic, as is the People's Republic of China. Neither have elections, or, at least, multi party elections.
 

Rosi

Historum Emeritas
Jul 2008
6,242
#36
The class system has not ended. Government propaganda has muddied the waters somewhat, that's all. We've partially adopted an American viewpoint that money equals class, whereas traditionally, class alignments went by blood, education and profession, and not so much by money. And with the destruction (intentional) of the true Working Class, a fourth class now exists: the "underclass", a large number of dispossesed "losers" in the American sense. What we should call a "Non-Working class". Politically without representation, and therefore politically apathetic, the underclass sinks into its subcultures, based, largely, on those of its American counterpart: drugs, crime and an ammoral view of money, although to be fair, the latter is also held by much of the Middle Class, although they tend to use different methods. Working class solidarity doesn't exist, and many deny that there IS a working class: Blair announced that "We're all Middle Class now". Except for the "doesn't count" underclass, who exist merely as a political bogeyman to scare the rest of us into a Police State and Surveillance Society. And play upon petty resentments over benefit "scroungers", whilst, plainly, exploiting one's fellow man and the system is seen as just fine by those much higher up the socio-economic ladder. And for far larger sums.

Consumerism is now the standard which causes Class alignment: how much do you have? Like America, no society does so much to raise the hopes and expectations of it's population, then do so much to prevent them achieving these expectations.

Now, anyone with a job, a Sky satellite dish and a road legal car regards themselves as Middle Class- the misery gutted, greedy and stupid masses who get told that they're clever, but actually aren't.

Now, we live in interesting times, as chickens come home to roost: paper millionaires are losing their homes (or, "properties" as they so recently referred to them. Only now that they're losing them are they homes). Their fortunes up in smoke, as they discover that, guess what, the banks aren't nice, and are instead vicious money grabbing ammoral bastards, and that wealth is indeed just as relative as poverty, and suddenly, the wealthy want Socialism, whilst advocating Free Market Capitalism for the poor for the last 30+ years. Doubters can look at the Bank Bailout versus Rover and other manufacturers. The Sheriff of Nottingham would be proud.

And they're finally waking up to the idea that (a) fears about selling out to Europe are groundless, as it's too late: we've already sold out our utilities, banks, and much else to the Multis and that (b) "Credit" actually means "Debt", and that all debts get called in at some point, and that Stock and money markets are akin to Russian Roulette with 3 bullets in the chamber.

I'd laugh myself to death, if I didn't have to live here....

However, watch as class alignments change again, as disillusionment sinks in and reality bites.....

For the record, I'm Working class with a better education than most upper middle class. No wonder I'm a misanthropist! :)

To readers of a delicate nature: sorry about the rant :)

That's a damn good rant, I mean post, Black Dog.
 

Black Dog

Ad Honorem
Mar 2008
9,990
Damned England
#38
The class system is alive and well, look at the average officer in the armed forces.
- Alex87tkd

Indeed. Wasn't it Rommel who allegedly said, "Give me British soldiers and German officers, and I'll rule the world"? A damning indictment of the British officer class, if ever there was one, and of course, events during both wars confirm this. Even Montomery, for all his successes, wasn't in the same league as many German or indeed Russian officers, many of whom were promoted by merit, rather than class. Especially in the Waffen SS. There may be Scots regiments, or Irish, or Gurkha or Welsh: but the officer class is the same: middle/upper class Oxbridge/Sandhurst boys. It's no coincidence that "Blackadder"s WW1 General Melchet personifies this class for so many people.