Where did the Phoenicians come from?

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,330
Portugal
#61
Mostly what I hv read is that Hebrews originated ultimately from Mesopotamia. After all, that is where Abraham came from. He first settled in Canaan. And the Phoenicians were already there. So, the ancient Hebrews, i.e. Abraham's progeny, likely mixed with some of the Phoenicians, to some extent or other. That is all.
What is your source on this reasoning?
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#64
Eden, from πεδίον is Lebanon ' all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon (Ezekiel 31:16).
The root form of the name Eden which is Pedion (πεδίον) appear in a Hebrew transliteration as 'Padan Aram', that is πεδίον ἁρμός in Gen 25:20, another name for Coele-Syria written
in Greek, as Κοίλη Συρία , due to how Hebrew renders Greeks, Συρία Κοίλη > Σρα Κλ > Ισρ Κλ > ישראל > Israel.


Coele-Syria - Wikipedia
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,330
Portugal
#65
Thanks. Generically what is there follows the some of the possibilities that I learned about the Hebrews History in my first year at the university, and it seems a good site for high school level, I would like to have a similar one in Portuguese to show to the students. But when I asked you I was thinking in some more heavy academic sources, since I don’t have much recent material about the subject. And meanwhile probably new theories and chronologies where proposed.
 
#66
What about the invasions / migrations of the Sea Peoples?

In Italy there are scholars [like Leonardo Melis] who join the thesis of international researchers like Sir Leonard Woolley. In a few words the Sea Peoples invaded that coast occupying the land [a good part of Canaan included]. Also Gerard Herm in his "Die Poinizier" agrees with this hypothesis.

But he adds a more comprehensive analysis. According to his thought, the Sea Peoples mixed themselves with Canaanite populations and from this mix came the Phoenician identity.
That doesn't ring true at all.

The Sea peoples were Greco invaders, the Philistines who were one such peoples settled Gaza, this settlement which was the one major incursion of Seas peoples in land other than just raids happened from after 1150 BC which is when the Egyptians record initial contact with them.
The Phoenician culture on the other hand was already underway from 1550 BC.

I don't think there was anything weird or wonderful about how they started their maritime traditions or who they were, geography alone would push them towards the sea, the Levant is effectively one land locked (on the East / North & South) giant harbor so the Phoenicians are simply local peoples, no different than today, obviously Semites.

Anything East and you run into larger kingdoms and empires so only the West across the sea is open to unfettered expansion.

Added to this the Assyrians put an end to Philistine in the 8th century, Phoenicia however carried on into the 4th century, they maintained some form of independence i.e they were allowed to exist because as local Semites as opposed to the Greco origin Philistines the Assyrians didn't view them as a foreign invader and so this also points to Phoenicians not having a Sea people foreign element, in a nut shell the Phoenicians religion, language wise etc show only Semitic traits.

Meanwhile in ancient Gaza at the time of the Philistines they were finding Greco pottery etc hinting to the Sea peoples mysterious origins.
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#67
I noticed that the Wikipedia page for Coele-Syria is wrong.

Coele-Syria - Wikipedia

Kul Eber-Nari
Koile Syria 'Corrupt Greek translation '



The given phrase 'Kul Eber Nari, this phrase can be understood in Greek as 'ὅλος ὑπέρ ἀναρύῃ' ( all-across the river)
and ὅλος being a dialectic form of Κοίλη and ὅλος can be transliterated into אל .

Συρία ὅλος > Σρί ὅλ > Ισρ ὅλ > ישראל > Israel
Συρία Κοίλη > Σρί Κλ > Ισρ Κλ > ישראל > Israel (alt)

This makes sense since the Biblical 'Israel' is the precise area of the Assyrian and then Persian province of “Beyond the River” that became 'Coele-Syria' in 322 BCE, 10
years after the fall of Tyre.
 
Last edited:

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
31,142
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#68
I noticed that the Wikipedia page for Coele-Syria is wrong.

Coele-Syria - Wikipedia

Kul Eber-Nari
Koile Syria 'Corrupt Greek translation '



The given phrase 'Kul Eber Nari, this phrase can be understood in Greek as 'ὅλος ὑπέρ ἀναρύῃ' ( all-across the river)
and ὅλος being a dialectic form of Κοίλη and ὅλος can be transliterated into אל .

Συρία ὅλος > Σρί ὅλ > Ισρ ὅλ > ישראל > Israel
Συρία Κοίλη > Σρί Κλ > Ισρ Κλ > ישראל > Israel (alt)

This makes sense since the Biblical 'Israel' is the precise area of the Assyrian and then Persian province of “Beyond the River” that became 'Coele-Syria' in 322 BCE, 10
years after the fall of Tyre.
I told you bot to post this nonsense anywhere other than Speculative History.

You have just earned yourself a 2 month ban.
 
#69
The linguistic data shows that they were closely related to the Hebrew people. So based on the fact that most of the people living on the southern shores of the Persian Gulf spoke East Arabian dialects, it is highly probable that these people sprang out of a common Linguistic nucleus (Since these are all west Semitic languages).

Generally speaking there are two hypothesis about where the Semitic people came from. The first proposed homeland is southern Arabia, because of the archaic features found in the southern Arabian languages. The second one is that they originated in Syria, which is based on archaeological and historical data.

The Canaanite people are thought to have been the first Semitic people who came in contact with the Egyptians and from there they grew in power and number through trade (3000 BC.). After the invasion of the sea people around 1200 BC (which are of unknown origin but some speculate that they might have been the Mycenaean or Trojan, or Minoan people), an entity which the Greeks call 'Phoenicia' (meaning "Purple" after the dye they produced and traded) came into existence by the union of several cities such as Byblos, Sidon and Tyre. So it is probable that they were not originally homogenous and Phoenician was adopted after the unity was established.

So there you have it:

They migrated from the Arabian penisula towards northwest Arabia together with Arameans (first half of 4th century BC) --->
moved through trade routes between the two major civilizations of the day (second half of 4th century BC) --->
settled on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean sea and mixed with local populations, since the area of Canaan was populated well before history (3000 BC) --->
mixed with the sea people (1200 BC) --->
were at the height of their power (1000-800 BC)
The first peoples to speak a Semite language was the ancient Akkadians who originated in Mesopotamia.
Akkadian language - Wikipedia
 

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