Where did the pyramid builders come from?

Feb 2017
129
Hel
I'm referring specifically to the 'Great' Pyramids.

Around 2600-2500 B.C. Basically out of no where there appears the giant pyramids of Giza. (and of course the pyramid of Djoser which is supposedly slightly older than the large pyramids, though quite clearly not designed by the same builders.)

The point being that there is no real history of moving large stones or creating stone buildings in Africa before 2600-2500 B.C.
All of the 'pyramids' that come after that are nothing but piles of rubble, and were quite clearly not designed by people of the same 'calibre' as the great pyramid designers...

Here's a few examples of the "pyramids" that come after the Great pyramids...



Pyramid of Userkafe 2480 B.C.



Pyramid of Sahure 2480 B.C.


Pyramid of Djedkare-Isesi 2370 B.C.


Pyramid of Senusret II 1875 BC


Quite clearly something is off here.
Normally a civilization and it's building techniques evolve over time...Yet in Egypt we see the opposite.

So where do you guys believe the pyramid designers came from?

Did some African tribes just out of the stone age wake up one morning and suddenly understand how to build the Great pyramids, and then just as suddenly forget how to build them?
 
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AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,626
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Are you sure it's not a development?

Today we built bridges which last some centuries ... ancient Roman bridges are still there and open to car traffic!

The point is that they didn't study the duration of stone structures [they hadn't the scientific tools to do that]. So that, when they passed from stone blocks to bricks they weren't that aware that they were going to condemn the news structures to a brief life.

The "industrial production" of bricks is an evolution from the usage of stone blocks. The problem is that they didn't know enough the technology of production of bricks.

But ... why did they evolved in that direction? Because of the fall of the ancient regime [just to use a modern saying]. The Pharaoh was losing power and the administrations, the temples, were gaining social positions. The Crowns weren't able to gather such an enormous quantity of workers ... no more blocks from the quarries to the construction sites ... only bricks produced not too far.

[A part a certain quantity of blocks that the Crowns still afforded].
 
Aug 2016
926
Ireland, Dublin
I'm referring specifically to the 'Great' Pyramids.

Around 2600-2500 B.C. Basically out of no where there appears the giant pyramids of Giza. (and of course the pyramid of Djoser which is supposedly slightly older than the large pyramids, though quite clearly not designed by the same builders.)

The point being that there is no real history of moving large stones or creating stone buildings in Africa before 2600-2500 B.C.
All of the 'pyramids' that come after that are nothing but piles of rubble, and were quite clearly not designed by people of the same 'calibre' as the great pyramid designers...

Here's a few examples of the "pyramids" that come after the Great pyramids...



Pyramid of Userkafe 2480 B.C.



Pyramid of Sahure 2480 B.C.


Pyramid of Djedkare-Isesi 2370 B.C.


Pyramid of Senusret II 1875 BC


Quite clearly something is off here.
Normally a civilization and it's building techniques evolve over time...Yet in Egypt we see the opposite.

So where do you guys believe the pyramid designers came from?

Did some African tribes just out of the stone age wake up one morning and suddenly understand how to build the Great pyramids, and then just as suddenly forget how to build them?
Thank you for asking this question, because from what I've seen on the internet from laymen(including myself I'm no expert) most people who talk about Egypt have NO idea where it's true origins lie.

The true is there's a place known as Nabta playa in Southern Egypt(Nubia which includes Upper Egypt and Noerthern Sudan) In this place there was a Megalithic culture, where one can see some of the Oldest astronomical and mathematical structures on the Earth



By the 5th millennium BC these peoples had fashioned what may be among the world's earliest known archeoastronomical devices (roughly contemporary to the Goseck circle in Germany and the Mnajdra megalithic temple complex in Malta). These include alignments of stones that may have indicated the rising of certain stars and a "calendar circle" that indicates the approximate direction of summer solstice sunrise.[6] "Calendar circle" may be a misnomer as the spaces between the pairs of stones in the gates are a bit too wide, and the distances between the gates are too short for accurate calendar measurements."[4] An inventory of Egyptian archaeoastronomical sites for the UNESCO World Heritage Convention evaluated Nabta Playa as having "hypothetical solar and stellar alignments."[7]
Also just like the Great pyramids of Giza some these rock formations align with the stars which in my opinion is enough to prove This Culture had its origin in the Nile Valley/Nubia

Astrophysicist Thomas G. Brophy suggests the hypothesis that the southerly line of three stones inside the Calendar Circle represented the three stars of Orion’s Belt and the other three stones inside the calendar circle represented the shoulders and head stars of Orion as they appeared in the sky. These correspondences were for two dates—circa 4,800 BC and at precessional opposition—representing how the sky "moves" long term. Brophy proposes that the circle was constructed and used circa the later date, and the dual date representation was a conceptual representation of the motion of the sky over a precession cycle.

Near the Calendar Circle, which is made of smaller stones, there are alignments of large megalithic stones. The southerly lines of these megaliths, Brophy shows, aligned to the same stars as represented in the Calendar Circle, all at the same epoch, circa 6270 BC. The Calendar Circle correlation with Orion's belt occurred between 6400 BC and 4900 BC, matching the radio-carbon dating of campfires around the circle.[3]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabta_Playa
 
Aug 2016
926
Ireland, Dublin
Are you sure it's not a development?

Today we built bridges which last some centuries ... ancient Roman bridges are still there and open to car traffic!

The point is that they didn't study the duration of stone structures [they hadn't the scientific tools to do that]. So that, when they passed from stone blocks to bricks they weren't that aware that they were going to condemn the news structures to a brief life.

The "industrial production" of bricks is an evolution from the usage of stone blocks. The problem is that they didn't know enough the technology of production of bricks.

But ... why did they evolved in that direction? Because of the fall of the ancient regime [just to use a modern saying]. The Pharaoh was losing power and the administrations, the temples, were gaining social positions. The Crowns weren't able to gather such an enormous quantity of workers ... no more blocks from the quarries to the construction sites ... only bricks produced not too far.

[A part a certain quantity of blocks that the Crowns still afforded].
I think he's talking more about which megalithic culture precedes Ancient Egypt, and where else but the one in The fertile Cresent and the one in Southern Egypt.
 
Feb 2017
129
Hel
Are you sure it's not a development?
Developed from what?

The Pyramid of Djoser is the only large scale stone building in Africa that was supposedly built before the Great pyramids.
But it was basically built at roughly around the same time, give or take 60 years, which is hardly much time for building techniques to evolve to such an extreme degree...IE the huge step in innovation and skill from the Djoser pyramid to the Great pyramids.

I take belief in the theory that the Great pyramids are quite a bit older than the pyramid of Djoser however. The two building styles quite clearly show two different peoples with two very different skill/intelligence levels built the structures.
 

cladking

Ad Honorem
Nov 2011
2,772
exile
It appears that the Egyptians were a conglomeration of peoples. Those who farmed the valley initially were likely from the south. But around 9000 years ago the Sahara was forming and the water was getting scarce which was forcing people from the west to migrate to Egypt and much of the pyramid building culture appears to have sprung from them.

Egypt drew some people from all directions and there was a Sumerian influence as well during the great pyramid building age. Humans had probably crossed the Nile at Giza for longer than we were even really human. Migration of humans and proto-humans had left Africa right across Giza since it's the northernmost point that the river can be easily crossed.
 
Aug 2016
926
Ireland, Dublin
It appears that the Egyptians were a conglomeration of peoples. Those who farmed the valley initially were likely from the south. But around 9000 years ago the Sahara was forming and the water was getting scarce which was forcing people from the west to migrate to Egypt and much of the pyramid building culture appears to have sprung from them.

Egypt drew some people from all directions and there was a Sumerian influence as well during the great pyramid building age. Humans had probably crossed the Nile at Giza for longer than we were even really human. Migration of humans and proto-humans had left Africa right across Giza since it's the northernmost point that the river can be easily crossed.
I agree with most of what you said but when you say the "west" exactly where are you referring to?

And the desertification of Egypt,the Sahara, and all of North Africa even extends into Recorded history based on what I've read, Its also very important you bear in mind Egypt and Sumer have nearly(to the point that if so, its negligible) no relation, but Near Eastern people who brought crops,sheep, and other pastoral related things to Africa do.
 
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cladking

Ad Honorem
Nov 2011
2,772
exile
I agree with most of what you said but when you say the "west" exactly where are you referring to?

And the desertification of Egypt,the Sahara, and all of North Africa even extends into Recorded history based on what I've read, Its also very important you bear in mind Egypt and Sumer have nearly(to the point of if so, its negligent) no relation, but Near Eastern people who brought crops,sheep, and other pastoral related things to Africa do.
Sumeria was an important trading partner with Egypt and had some influence on culture but it wouldn't have been great. Certainly Near Eastern people had a more direct impact on the culture, but again, I doubt it was great.

It's still uncertain where the people in the Sahara originated but it appears to be even further west. I suppose they would have gone in all directions as the Sahara formed but they had the greatest impact on Egypt. Much of this is based on culture, genetic data (frowned on here), and archaeoclimatology. It appears the Sahara has formed and disappeared many times.

We do seem to be in general agreement.
 
Aug 2016
926
Ireland, Dublin
Sumeria was an important trading partner with Egypt and had some influence on culture but it wouldn't have been great. Certainly Near Eastern people had a more direct impact on the culture, but again, I doubt it was great.

It's still uncertain where the people in the Sahara originated but it appears to be even further west. I suppose they would have gone in all directions as the Sahara formed but they had the greatest impact on Egypt. Much of this is based on culture, genetic data (frowned on here), and archaeoclimatology. It appears the Sahara has formed and disappeared many times.

We do seem to be in general agreement.
Agreed, best conclusion though is that pyramid building culture in Africa originates between Nubia/Nile Valley and Egypt because even though Nubia is the Precursor to the place I wouldn't really consider it a "civilization" until upper and lower Egypt were United. (I could be wrong though, not much is known about Nubia).