Where has multiculturalism been successful ?

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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,101
What are cases of success ?... What are cases of failure ? What is the rough ratio of success to failure


Here is a case of failure (Malmo , Sweden)


Multiple cases of failure are related to the breakdown of empires (for example Austria Hungary) or even countries (Yugoslavia)

The difficulty lies in defining "multiculturalism"

Mulitculturalism is defined as the presence of, or support for the presence of, several distinct cultural or ethnic groups within a society.

The key point here is "distinct" , i.e. not integrated with the mainstream culture of the country..... As always it is difficult to define such concepts precisely... For example having a different diet is "not it", whilst not speaking the country's official language "is it"..... Importing different sets of customs that do not align with the country's traditions and core values would be "it" as well
 
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AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,401
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Mah ... my opinion is that real "multiculturalism" isn't and it cannot be. Reality [this is what I infer observing what I see around, so it's a questionable impression] is that the so called "multicultural societies" [for example the United States] have got a kind of "super-culture" or "over-culture" which allows the different cultures to cohabit. Without such a super-culture [in a democratic system, a dictatorship imposes, doesn't allow, to different cultures to cohabit] I'm afraid that the conflict would be only a matter of time.

Even where you've got several official languages [EU, Switzerland ...] you can detect the presence of something like an over-culture [we could just note that in Switzerland in 2009 they voted a referendum prohibiting the construction of minarets ...].

Switzerland makes me think that the cohabitation of very different cultures requires a strong over-culture to impose limits and rules, just to avoid social conflicts.

And it's not about discrimination, but about endorsing the context which keeps an acceptable social equilibrium.
 
Oct 2011
518
Croatia
As @AlpinLuke noted, multiculturalism is only possible when cultures share the same foundation. Some level of common ground is absolutely necessary for functioning of any society, but especially so democratic one. But having e.g. Christian and Islamic cultures successfully cohabit is, frankly, impossible. They are simply too dissimilar to make finding any common ground possible.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,164
Portugal
Multiculturalism is a bag that can have many, many, many significances. Usually today in the West all those significances are negative and negatively exploited.

Two success in multiculturalism were here already pointed by AlpinLuke: Switzerland, and the EU (at least until Durão Barroso). To a certain point we could add Spain (after 1975 and until recently), Belgium (also until recently), Luxemburg…

Then we have articles like the one that Tomar posted… and information like this one:

https://www.thelocal.se/20190118/malm-sees-lowest-crime-stats-in-17-years-new-figures

And we see that someone is lying. The two tales can’t be truth at the same time.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,101
And we see that someone is lying. The two tales can’t be truth at the same time.
Theoritically they could..... you could have a situation where the overall number of crimes goes down, while the number of violent crimes (certain subcategories) goes up..... So for example if there were -say- 1000 bicycle thefts which then decreased by 50% but the number of car bombs increased from 10 to 20 , you'd have at the same time a marked decrease in overall crime but a marked increase in the feeling of insecurity (since people wont care much about bike theft but will be significantly scared by car bombs)

Also authorities play games with stats when then do not look good for them (they like to do that for joblessness for example)....
 
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deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,675
Europix
What are cases of success ?... What are cases of failure ? What is the rough ratio of success to failure


Here is a case of failure (Malmo , Sweden)


Multiple cases of failure are related to the breakdown of empires (for example Austria Hungary) or even countries (Yugoslavia)

The difficulty lies in defining "multiculturalism"

Mulitculturalism is defined as the presence of, or support for the presence of, several distinct cultural or ethnic groups within a society.

The key point here is "distinct" , i.e. not integrated with the mainstream culture of the country..... As always it is difficult to define such concepts precisely... For example having a different diet is "not it", whilst not speaking the country's official language "is it"..... Importing different sets of customs that do not align with the country's traditions and core values would be "it" as well
tomar, isn't the example You've chosen derailing the OP You've proposed?

Frankly, is multiculturalism meaning the harmonious cohabitation of criminal culture with non-criminal culture?
 
Feb 2019
97
Mumbai
There has never been a successful truly Multicultural civilization that lasted a long time and I doubt there ever will be, as others mentioned, most multicultural nations (like US) have a central core of values & principles which everyone shares which is what allows them to succeed eventually. This hence does not make them truly multicultural. US for instance is increasingly seeing a demographic shift (from White to Brown majority) and this will no doubt have ramifications, you are already seeing signs of this in current politics.

Even in my own country, multiculturalism only works due to religious majority Hindus enjoy. Else we would have never been able to be a part of one nation. It's not a coincidence that most separatist movements/ideologies are dominated by non-Hindus.
 
Nov 2019
138
Memphis TN
What are cases of success ?... What are cases of failure ? What is the rough ratio of success to failure


Here is a case of failure (Malmo , Sweden)


Multiple cases of failure are related to the breakdown of empires (for example Austria Hungary) or even countries (Yugoslavia)

The difficulty lies in defining "multiculturalism"

Mulitculturalism is defined as the presence of, or support for the presence of, several distinct cultural or ethnic groups within a society.

The key point here is "distinct" , i.e. not integrated with the mainstream culture of the country..... As always it is difficult to define such concepts precisely... For example having a different diet is "not it", whilst not speaking the country's official language "is it"..... Importing different sets of customs that do not align with the country's traditions and core values would be "it" as well
America.. the most diverse country I the planet and also the most wealthy and powerful..

I’m not saying correlation equals causation, but I bet you could chart the results and the more diverse the country. The more wealthy and powerful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Jul 2019
850
New Jersey
America.. the most diverse country I the planet and also the most wealthy and powerful..

I’m not saying correlation equals causation, but I bet you could chart the results and the more diverse the country. The more wealthy and powerful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would agree, but with an important caveat. The immigrants need to somewhat assimilate. My ancestors came to America speaking only Arabic, French, or Spanish. Yet they made sure their kids knew English, were patriotic and law abiding, etc. In other words, they adopted American culture even as they maintained many of their own traditions and cultural peculiarities. That is the basis on which any multicultural society must rest.
 

MG1962a

Ad Honorem
Mar 2019
2,211
Kansas
I would agree, but with an important caveat. The immigrants need to somewhat assimilate. My ancestors came to America speaking only Arabic, French, or Spanish. Yet they made sure their kids knew English, were patriotic and law abiding, etc. In other words, they adopted American culture even as they maintained many of their own traditions and cultural peculiarities. That is the basis on which any multicultural society must rest.
Very much the experience in Australia.
 
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