Where has multiculturalism been successful ?

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robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,261
Lisbon, Portugal
That is deflecting.. You claimed that there are higher rates of islamist extremism in the west than in Indonesia.. It is simply not true.... The difference is in Indonesia those "extremists" are mainstream...
No, I'm not deflecting anything, look at my original point, please.

Among Muslim populations in European countries, which are relatively small, you can see higher rates of radicalization. The subversive and violent ideology of Jihadism is simply more attractive to many young Muslims living in the outskirts of Brussels than they are to stricken poor Indonesian internal migrants living in the shantytowns of Jakarta - that's a very apparent observation that most people, including specialists studying this issue, make.
Until a few years ago we were witnessing to what I will claim a "low-level Islamist insurgency" in countries like France and Belgium, carried out by mostly Muslim nationals with attacks being committed almost every month and right in the respective capitals and other major big cities.
Nothing of that sort took place in Indonesia, besides the extremely localized insurgency in Aceh and the totally failed attempt to create a climate of perpetual mayhem in Bali, in which those Islamists faced a huge blow-back from Indonesian Muslims in general after a few attacks happened on that island.
Indonesia is a country with a huge number of Muslims (the biggest one), which according to your analysis, should be a huge exporter and provider of Jihadist terrorists, but even on that regard, the number of Indonesians joining ISIS or such groups is even lower than Belgian nationals joining those groups.

And that also goes against the classical Marxist argument of economic dispossession being the largest contributor for Islamic radicalization - of course that plays a factor, but as I already stated to other historumite, there's no one-size-fits-all explanation for this.
It's most likely that what drives more Belgian Muslims, on a per capita basis, being more prone to radicalization compared to an Indonesian, is by the fact that a Muslim Belgian is more likely to be educated, with more disposable income and at the same time being more social and culturally isolated and also more likely to suffer from identity crisis - that is a very explosive mix (Benmelech et. al, 2016).

And as a separate point, mainstream western media rarely talks about the islamist menace (except for FOX , but is it mainstream? that is another debate) , rather it is focused on presenting Islam as being innocuous and busily selling the iconic islamic veil as a "must" of muslim identity (when it is not talking about how wunderbar ramadan is or the alleged thousands of inventions of "islamic" science)
FOX is also mainstream media.

I'm talking about how Western media cover the news on Muslim-majority countries specifically, what you are referring to is how the media treats Muslim minorities living in Western countries, which on a patronizing way views those Muslim minorities only through the lens of an oppressed minority needed of being helped and lifted from their low status and perceived discrimination.
How Western media covers events in Muslim country is always, and exclusively in a negative light and almost incessantly and unabashedly resorting to very cheap Orientalist tropes.
 
Jul 2019
193
Ghana
It's most likely that what drives more Belgian Muslims, on a per capita basis, being more prone to radicalization compared to an Indonesian, is by the fact that a Muslim Belgian is more likely to be educated, with more disposable income and at the same time being more social and culturally isolated and also more likely to suffer from identity crisis - that is a very explosive mix (Benmelech et. al, 2016).
I was in Antwerp, Belgium, when a lot of these radicalized youths left for Syria. A significant number of people left from Antwerp to fight. I went to school with one guy who got radicalized long after I last saw him. Went to Syria. Died. I know more people that knew old schoolmates or colleagues who left to fight. Pretty shocking to everybody that knew them. Widely condemned as well. Strangely, or perhaps not so strange, most of these people didn't grow up really practicing Islam. They were mostly muslim in name only, didn't grow up going to mosque and more often than not partook in "haram" activities, including drinking, clubbing, girlfriends, and sometimes ended up doing petty crime like drug dealing and shoplifting. Sometimes they were into more serious stuff, like armed robberies, or pimping.

What they usually have in common, (not at all trying to excuse or victimize, but add more understanding to the factors leading to radicalization in Belgium, already mentioned by robto), is that they also grew up with racism, discrimination, islamophobia, social disparity between rich, middle class and poor, regardless of the high living standard of Belgium, and a sort of invisible, but powerful class distinction, that easily "rejects" people based on the accent they speak and the types of clothes they wear, even specific hairstyles lead to an automatic "no", when applying for many jobs, for example, not because those hairstyles are even remotely extravagant, but simply because they're associated with muslim migrants... Integration is perfectly possible in Belgium, but in general, unless you ditch every visible and audible aspect of your "original" culture, you won't be easily "accepted" by the mainstream.

There are these subtle, but constant and longstanding micro aggressions targeted at migrants and muslims in particular. I "look" like a muslim to many people, so I've experienced it myself. Everything from pervasive nasty stares and unwarranted comments, to denial of service or even full on police profiling and the occasional physical aggression. It can get pretty "old school" in Belgium ("go back to your country!" followed by blows, isn't an uncommon occurrence, targeting unsuspecting people who look like migrants or muslims, and often don't even see the point in reporting it to the police. I've experienced it. My house was even egged once, as if we were back in the 60's)...

A lot of these guys (and women) that left for Syria were 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants. They were usually born and raised in Belgium, and even had difficulties adapting to life in their "original home countries" if or when they travelled there. These immigrant communities are often not even held in high regard by their original home countries. More than anything, they're a product of Belgium. Nothing excuses terrorism, but the factors leading to radicalisations lie in the small percentage of people that "snap", and some of them definitely had mental issues prior to their radicalisation (schizophrenia, depression, or just plain retardation).

More than anything, they suffer from low self esteem, have the perception that there are no opportunities for them, suffer from identity crises, and so on. Add the occasional police brutality, racial profiling, exposure to the criminal world, and a whole bunch of bad decisions in life. Then comes along a Wahhabi imam professing "true" Islam to these religiously ignorant people, talks about divine justice, while flashing lot's of money, all sorts of promises of position, opportunities, and the promise of heaven and absolution of all their sins, and a chance to get back at all the people they feel have wronged them... Again, there is no excuse for joining ISIS or Al Qaed. Ever... But Belgium has deep rooted social issues, rooted in a subtle but powerful classism, racism and a deeply ingrained sense of cultural superiority, especially towards the 3rd world. Even after 3 generations, most descendants of migrants still don't really consider themselves "Belgian", whereas in some other countries, when people migrate there, they adopt the national identity of that country within their lifetime.

It's honestly just a bit of a weird country and I don't even like to go there anymore. The national discourse has become one of extremes. Neither side of the spectrum seems to be rooted in reality. Blaming migrants or muslims for all the problems is easy, but stupid when you understand that these migrant influxes were instrumental for the growth of the country. Originally for mining coal, they first brought in migrants from Italy, and later switched to Turks and Moroccans. Even today, a lot of the menial labor, low paying jobs and low skilled jobs are filled by (muslim) migrants. The country would collapse without them, but the public discourse is very much negative towards them. The 2 largest political parties in Flanders are specifically known for their stance on Islam and migration... It's a difficult place to feel welcome, even if you're born there. Even when you're not a muslim. You just need to "look" like one...
 
Last edited:

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,816
Europix
There are these subtle, but constant and longstanding micro aggressions
While ago, the kiddos and their buddies took the train to go to Oostende, and there was a more through check (I suppose they were looking for someone?)

All but one were asked to show their passports. The only one not asked for the passport was blond, "Nordic type". All were Belgian born nationals, born in Belgium, in Belgian families ... except for the blond one ...

Nevermind.

Is this thread still about the idea of multiculturalism, about the success and fail of multiculturalist policies, or (as usual, I dare to say) is resuming to Islamists and immigration in Europe?


_________
sundiata1, robto, thank You for Your posts. It's good to read posts scratching under the outer skin, trying to look what's underneath, not remaining just on the surface.
 
Last edited:
Jul 2019
193
Ghana
While ago, the kiddos and their buddies took the train to go to Oostende, and there was a more through check (I suppose they were looking for someone?)

All but one were asked to show their passports. The only one not asked for the passport was blond, "Nordic type". All were Belgian born nationals, born in Belgium, in Belgian families ... except for the blond one ...

Nevermind.
ID Checks are routine when you're a young foreign looking man. And they're not friendly about it either. They'll just bark a command and try to intimidate you, even provoke you, to get an excuse to go hard on you. Seeing my ID wasn't enough, they'd usually run a check as well... Not something they usually do, unless something happened. I always kept my cool, but that caused some of them to behave even worse. I remember one time, on a train, even a middle aged white man reacted with annoyance, questioning the cop if his behavior was really normal (the cop had called in a second cop when he saw me and started running a check that lasted for a while, while hanging over me in a manner that suggested that he was trying to prevent me from "running away" even though he had my ID in his hands and I was totally relaxed... I've seen an equally brown friend of mine, who also speaks the local language fluently, detained and taken to the station because he forgot his ID once. He was very obviously Belgian born and raised and no crimes had been committed. He just forgot his ID... When my father had first come to Antwerp, one day he was sitting on a bench in a public park in the city. Cops showed up with lots of fanfare, shoved him in a van, and drove him to a crime scene where a black man had stolen a purse. Even the victim was annoyed with the police... They litterally just arrested the first black man they saw... My dad, who was just enjoying a quite summers day in the park, probably looking at some ducks or something... I know it's anecdotal, but we all have libraries of this stuff in our memories.

It's difficult to describe the feeling of being frisked, and having the entire contents of your backpack removed, in a public street, with people walking by, looking at you like the cops just caught another dealer... Only for them to hand you back your stuff a little while later and drive off without so much as a "sorry to bother you sir".... For nothing... I doubt it's even legal... But happened with some routine. I always felt a weird sense of pride and disgust when I saw their confused faces when all they could find were books...lol... Cops would try to intimidate us by driving by real slow, you know, driving at the same speed you're walking, while they stare at you, but say nothing... For an awkwardly long time. Just checking if we'd run or not... When I was younger we'd have the cops called on us simply for walking through a neighbourhood "we don't belong". I've never even been arrested. Never even seen the inside of a courthouse... But these guys would treat you like you're Dudus Coke...

And it's not just what you experience yourself. It's what you see happening to other people all the time. Including friends and family. Sometimes what they experience is much worse. And if you know a little something about Antwerp, you'd know how crooked and racist many of the cops are. It's a thing... It's like they watched too many 90's movies or something... Brussels is worse in many ways. Sometimes you hear the narrative that we should be grateful to be able to live in such an advanced country, but I left for my other home, and I never experienced anything here in Ghana, like what I experienced in Belgium... We have so many problems here, but I'm a lot happier, and a lot more at ease... Ghana is a very multicultural country, with almost 3 times as many muslims as Belgium, and we don't have any of these problems Europe is facing with her muslim population. Clearly, Islam isn't the common denominator. Neither is multiculturalism.

Oh my god, and the airports... It's really like the cliché. I'm always taken aside for random checks when I'm in a Western airport. And my bags get searched as if they have a reason to suspect something. When I went to New York they tested my hair for explosives. Not kidding...

If someone is routinely experiencing those things I described, and isn't mentally stable, they can loose it. It's constant. Like walking in on your colleagues casually discussing how they should "deport all foreigners". How "rotten muslims are". "I don't trust these negroes, I'm sure they stole something". How can you say for example: "and if you don't like it, then go home", to a person who is born in the country? Something as simple as not drinking alcohol or not eating pork can literally offend some people in Belgium. Like you've just taken a dump on their way of life, simply because you don't want a beer... As some people pointed out, there is a difference between integration, and assimilation. When the only viable path towards integration is a total rejection of your "prior identity", then some people start thinking twice about their life in the West. Some people just leave. Other people feel like they have nowhere to go, no way out. Especially the ones that are born in the West, and don't feel at home in their parents' country either. For some heavily misguided folk, joining ISIS is like a perverted and misplaced form of adventurism and escapism.

Again, I want to emphasize that I'm not making excuses for radicalization. Or self-victimizing or whatever. Like I said, I just don't experience any of the things I described, here in Ghana, and I feel quite comfortable living here. But when I read through this thread, and many others on this forum, I'm reminded of these mindsets that I used to have to deal with on a daily basis, and it was just really tiring, to be frank. If a society creates a breathing ground discontent, disillusion, and resentment, then they also create a breathing ground for extremism.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"
 
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Dec 2019
7
WA, USA
I suspect multiculturalism can sometimes (and only) be successful where it occurs naturally, over a long period of time. I suspect it will always fail when one culture is forced upon another.
 
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VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,857
Florania
ID Checks are routine when you're a young foreign looking man. And they're not friendly about it either. They'll just bark a command and try to intimidate you, even provoke you, to get an excuse to go hard on you. Seeing my ID wasn't enough, they'd usually run a check as well... Not something they usually do, unless something happened. I always kept my cool, but that caused some of them to behave even worse. I remember one time, on a train, even a middle aged white man reacted with annoyance, questioning the cop if his behavior was really normal (the cop had called in a second cop when he saw me and started running a check that lasted for a while, while hanging over me in a manner that suggested that he was trying to prevent me from "running away" even though he had my ID in his hands and I was totally relaxed... I've seen an equally brown friend of mine, who also speaks the local language fluently, detained and taken to the station because he forgot his ID once. He was very obviously Belgian born and raised and no crimes had been committed. He just forgot his ID... When my father had first come to Antwerp, one day he was sitting on a bench in a public park in the city. Cops showed up with lots of fanfare, shoved him in a van, and drove him to a crime scene where a black man had stolen a purse. Even the victim was annoyed with the police... They litterally just arrested the first black man they saw... My dad, who was just enjoying a quite summers day in the park, probably looking at some ducks or something... I know it's anecdotal, but we all have libraries of this stuff in our memories.

It's difficult to describe the feeling of being frisked, and having the entire contents of your backpack removed, in a public street, with people walking by, looking at you like the cops just caught another dealer... Only for them to hand you back your stuff a little while later and drive off without so much as a "sorry to bother you sir".... For nothing... I doubt it's even legal... But happened with some routine. I always felt a weird sense of pride and disgust when I saw their confused faces when all they could find were books...lol... Cops would try to intimidate us by driving by real slow, you know, driving at the same speed you're walking, while they stare at you, but say nothing... For an awkwardly long time. Just checking if we'd run or not... When I was younger we'd have the cops called on us simply for walking through a neighbourhood "we don't belong". I've never even been arrested. Never even seen the inside of a courthouse... But these guys would treat you like you're Dudus Coke...

And it's not just what you experience yourself. It's what you see happening to other people all the time. Including friends and family. Sometimes what they experience is much worse. And if you know a little something about Antwerp, you'd know how crooked and racist many of the cops are. It's a thing... It's like they watched too many 90's movies or something... Brussels is worse in many ways. Sometimes you hear the narrative that we should be grateful to be able to live in such an advanced country, but I left for my other home, and I never experienced anything here in Ghana, like what I experienced in Belgium... We have so many problems here, but I'm a lot happier, and a lot more at ease... Ghana is a very multicultural country, with almost 3 times as many muslims as Belgium, and we don't have any of these problems Europe is facing with her muslim population. Clearly, Islam isn't the common denominator. Neither is multiculturalism.

Oh my god, and the airports... It's really like the cliché. I'm always taken aside for random checks when I'm in a Western airport. And my bags get searched as if they have a reason to suspect something. When I went to New York they tested my hair for explosives. Not kidding...

If someone is routinely experiencing those things I described, and isn't mentally stable, they can loose it. It's constant. Like walking in on your colleagues casually discussing how they should "deport all foreigners". How "rotten muslims are". "I don't trust these negroes, I'm sure they stole something". How can you say for example: "and if you don't like it, then go home", to a person who is born in the country? Something as simple as not drinking alcohol or not eating pork can literally offend some people in Belgium. Like you've just taken a dump on their way of life, simply because you don't want a beer... As some people pointed out, there is a difference between integration, and assimilation. When the only viable path towards integration is a total rejection of your "prior identity", then some people start thinking twice about their life in the West. Some people just leave. Other people feel like they have nowhere to go, no way out. Especially the ones that are born in the West, and don't feel at home in their parents' country either. For some heavily misguided folk, joining ISIS is like a perverted and misplaced form of adventurism and escapism.

Again, I want to emphasize that I'm not making excuses for radicalization. Or self-victimizing or whatever. Like I said, I just don't experience any of the things I described, here in Ghana, and I feel quite comfortable living here. But when I read through this thread, and many others on this forum, I'm reminded of these mindsets that I used to have to deal with on a daily basis, and it was just really tiring, to be frank. If a society creates a breathing ground discontent, disillusion, and resentment, then they also create a breathing ground for extremism.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"
Why do people often look at African (or African looking people) with suspicion? Where did such impressions
originate?
In Canada, African or African looking people or First Nations people (or First Nations looking people) are
often suspected.
Statistically speaking, these people are more likely to get into issues with the criminal justice system, which means
they have a higher share of criminal population then their percentage in the population.
It is very offensive for non-Chinese: in one of a popular Chinese webnovel, the protagonist is a time traveler and he only employs castrated slaves when they are not "Han" people; since full castration meant high rate of death, he chose bilateral orchitectomy en masse.
Things could be worse for African slaves; at least they did not undergo bilateral orchitectomy en masse!
I recommend Intellectuals and Races by Thomas Sowell here.
Interestingly enough, he mentioned the cases that "White" in the USA might be faring worse than Asian Americans
(mostly East Asians), and African Americans were still faring the worst on average.
Let's celebrate some of the progresses: We are witnessing successful African Americans, and even the average
social standards for African Americans have improved very substantially.
Neil deGrasse Tyson is a tremendously successful scientist and writer; then, discussing famous figures here do
not help the average here. Both Thomas Sowell and Neil deGrasse Tyson are examples that African Americans can
succeed in fields other than popular music, movie industry and sports.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,257
ID Checks are routine when you're a young foreign looking man. And they're not friendly about it either. They'll just bark a command and try to intimidate you, even provoke you, to get an excuse to go hard on you. Seeing my ID wasn't enough, they'd usually run a check as well... Not something they usually do, unless something happened. I always kept my cool, but that caused some of them to behave even worse. I remember one time, on a train, even a middle aged white man reacted with annoyance, questioning the cop if his behavior was really normal (the cop had called in a second cop when he saw me and started running a check that lasted for a while, while hanging over me in a manner that suggested that he was trying to prevent me from "running away" even though he had my ID in his hands and I was totally relaxed... I've seen an equally brown friend of mine, who also speaks the local language fluently, detained and taken to the station because he forgot his ID once. He was very obviously Belgian born and raised and no crimes had been committed. He just forgot his ID... When my father had first come to Antwerp, one day he was sitting on a bench in a public park in the city. Cops showed up with lots of fanfare, shoved him in a van, and drove him to a crime scene where a black man had stolen a purse. Even the victim was annoyed with the police... They litterally just arrested the first black man they saw... My dad, who was just enjoying a quite summers day in the park, probably looking at some ducks or something... I know it's anecdotal, but we all have libraries of this stuff in our memories.

It's difficult to describe the feeling of being frisked, and having the entire contents of your backpack removed, in a public street, with people walking by, looking at you like the cops just caught another dealer... Only for them to hand you back your stuff a little while later and drive off without so much as a "sorry to bother you sir".... For nothing... I doubt it's even legal... But happened with some routine. I always felt a weird sense of pride and disgust when I saw their confused faces when all they could find were books...lol... Cops would try to intimidate us by driving by real slow, you know, driving at the same speed you're walking, while they stare at you, but say nothing... For an awkwardly long time. Just checking if we'd run or not... When I was younger we'd have the cops called on us simply for walking through a neighbourhood "we don't belong". I've never even been arrested. Never even seen the inside of a courthouse... But these guys would treat you like you're Dudus Coke...

And it's not just what you experience yourself. It's what you see happening to other people all the time. Including friends and family. Sometimes what they experience is much worse. And if you know a little something about Antwerp, you'd know how crooked and racist many of the cops are. It's a thing... It's like they watched too many 90's movies or something... Brussels is worse in many ways. Sometimes you hear the narrative that we should be grateful to be able to live in such an advanced country, but I left for my other home, and I never experienced anything here in Ghana, like what I experienced in Belgium... We have so many problems here, but I'm a lot happier, and a lot more at ease... Ghana is a very multicultural country, with almost 3 times as many muslims as Belgium, and we don't have any of these problems Europe is facing with her muslim population. Clearly, Islam isn't the common denominator. Neither is multiculturalism.

Oh my god, and the airports... It's really like the cliché. I'm always taken aside for random checks when I'm in a Western airport. And my bags get searched as if they have a reason to suspect something. When I went to New York they tested my hair for explosives. Not kidding...

If someone is routinely experiencing those things I described, and isn't mentally stable, they can loose it. It's constant. Like walking in on your colleagues casually discussing how they should "deport all foreigners". How "rotten muslims are". "I don't trust these negroes, I'm sure they stole something". How can you say for example: "and if you don't like it, then go home", to a person who is born in the country? Something as simple as not drinking alcohol or not eating pork can literally offend some people in Belgium. Like you've just taken a dump on their way of life, simply because you don't want a beer... As some people pointed out, there is a difference between integration, and assimilation. When the only viable path towards integration is a total rejection of your "prior identity", then some people start thinking twice about their life in the West. Some people just leave. Other people feel like they have nowhere to go, no way out. Especially the ones that are born in the West, and don't feel at home in their parents' country either. For some heavily misguided folk, joining ISIS is like a perverted and misplaced form of adventurism and escapism.

Again, I want to emphasize that I'm not making excuses for radicalization. Or self-victimizing or whatever. Like I said, I just don't experience any of the things I described, here in Ghana, and I feel quite comfortable living here. But when I read through this thread, and many others on this forum, I'm reminded of these mindsets that I used to have to deal with on a daily basis, and it was just really tiring, to be frank. If a society creates a breathing ground discontent, disillusion, and resentment, then they also create a breathing ground for extremism.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"
Here is the problem and the trap: many people have unpleasant run ins with the police or all kinds of administrations or even banks.... But if you start the mental process of "I've been refused a loan because I am not the right color" then it is YOUR problem not the bank's problem..... The bank is refusing loans daily to a lot of people , not based on skin color but based on income, debt ratio, or perhaps the fact that it has already sold enough loans this months or that the account manager gets bonuses this month for selling credit cards, so that is where his focus is...

Second, the argument "that person was born here" is strange.. .So what ? In most african countries (and in most muslim countries) being "born here" does not give you any rights, and does not give you the right to citizenship if your parents are foreigners (and a cursory check shows that this is the case for Ghana, simply being born there does not give you the right to citizenship if I am not mistaken)... at least in Belgium and some other european countries , citizenship is granted based on place of birth.. And yet most second generation are not even grateful for that.. Why ? because of the attitude that "I am entitled"

Third, guilt by association.. If you are young you will pay more for your insurance premium..... Is that fair ? Maybe not but the insurers are just playing the stats, young drivers are more of a risk.... If a certain minority is known to commit more crimes, guess what... the police are going to play the stats too.... The prison population in western europe is overwhelmingly made up of youg males of a certain minority..... The reaction of the police is predictable, even if this is very unpleasant for anyone from that minority who has nothing to do with crime.... So if one is young + male + looks like he might be of a certain minority the police are going to be more wary of them than of a swedish swimsuit model or a 97 year old

As for airports, they now like to take samples and test them for drugs and explosives.... Should they NOT do it for certain minorities just because it hurts their sensitivity ? obviously not.....
 
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deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,816
Europix
I suspect it will always fail when one culture is forced upon another
I find that argument particularly odd, but significant in the same time for the confusion on the multiculturalism:

"... or support for the presence of, several distinct cultural or ethnic groups within a society... "*

" .... various ethnic groups collaborate and enter into a dialogue with one another without having to sacrifice their particular identities ... "
**

Multiculturalism is exactly about not enforcing another culture upon another.

______
* multiculturalism definition - Google Search
** Multiculturalism - Wikipedia
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,257
No, I'm not deflecting anything, look at my original point, please.

Among Muslim populations in European countries, which are relatively small, you can see higher rates of radicalization. The subversive and violent ideology of Jihadism is simply more attractive to many young Muslims living in the outskirts of Brussels than they are to stricken poor Indonesian internal migrants living in the shantytowns of Jakarta - that's a very apparent observation that most people, including specialists studying this issue, make.
Until a few years ago we were witnessing to what I will claim a "low-level Islamist insurgency" in countries like France and Belgium, carried out by mostly Muslim nationals with attacks being committed almost every month and right in the respective capitals and other major big cities.
Nothing of that sort took place in Indonesia, besides the extremely localized insurgency in Aceh and the totally failed attempt to create a climate of perpetual mayhem in Bali, in which those Islamists faced a huge blow-back from Indonesian Muslims in general after a few attacks happened on that island.
Indonesia is a country with a huge number of Muslims (the biggest one), which according to your analysis, should be a huge exporter and provider of Jihadist terrorists, but even on that regard, the number of Indonesians joining ISIS or such groups is even lower than Belgian nationals joining those groups.

And that also goes against the classical Marxist argument of economic dispossession being the largest contributor for Islamic radicalization - of course that plays a factor, but as I already stated to other historumite, there's no one-size-fits-all explanation for this.
It's most likely that what drives more Belgian Muslims, on a per capita basis, being more prone to radicalization compared to an Indonesian, is by the fact that a Muslim Belgian is more likely to be educated, with more disposable income and at the same time being more social and culturally isolated and also more likely to suffer from identity crisis - that is a very explosive mix (Benmelech et. al, 2016).



FOX is also mainstream media.

I'm talking about how Western media cover the news on Muslim-majority countries specifically, what you are referring to is how the media treats Muslim minorities living in Western countries, which on a patronizing way views those Muslim minorities only through the lens of an oppressed minority needed of being helped and lifted from their low status and perceived discrimination.
How Western media covers events in Muslim country is always, and exclusively in a negative light and almost incessantly and unabashedly resorting to very cheap Orientalist tropes.
Again, you ignore the fact that the radicals are mainstream in Indonesia. Like they were in Algeria in the 90s, eventually leading to a civil war and hundreds of thousands of deaths...

Re western media, no

The unrest in Irak, Iran or Algeria is widely covered... Aside from that you have many "interest" pieces covering anything from travel and cuisine to "muslim fashion" to industry fairs.... CNN in particular bends over backwards to present a positive image.. As mentionned elsewhere in their proselytic zeal they even recently published an article called "All aboard the high speed train to Mecca" purposefully ignoring the fact that Mecca is off limits to non muslims ( a fact which in itself should normally be the subject of endless outrage of CNN itself and its core audience) and thus there can be no "all aboard"
 
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