Which Country Contributed the Most in Defeating Napoleon

Which Country Did the Most to Defeat Napoleon

  • Austria

    Votes: 3 5.9%
  • Russia

    Votes: 19 37.3%
  • Prussia

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • Britain

    Votes: 23 45.1%
  • Another Country

    Votes: 5 9.8%

  • Total voters
    51
  • Poll closed .

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,248
Spain
#71
I'm not sure that is correct,.
Officer-Losses of the Napoleonic Wars (French and French Allies)

has Spain causing only about 25% of officer casulties, about the same as Russia 1812, and the 1813 campiagn.

Napoleonic Wars casualties - Wikipedia

is much teh same.

Dear Pugsville,

The problem is in the sources.... in officer-losses Losses of Life in Modern Wars: Austria-Hungary; France Oxford : Clarendon Press; 1916. you can read in archives.org... Gaston Brodart is....very naive ... it is not based on every action, but on samplings of great battles (in a work that deals with since the Middle Ages) and I guees in Martinien´s tableaux....by other side Brodart is writing about each war from Medieval times!!!

About wikipedia I can see no Contemporanean sources...

Who wrote Napoleon suffered 46% casualties in Spain (Portugal too, of course) are French Sources...and that it ´s has been attached to the collective mind...

According with French sources, the Imperial Army between 1804 to 1815 sustained around 900.000 dead.. between them, 32% were KIA (Killed in Action) and DOW (Death of wounds).... out of that 32% that they died in action or because of action (as the dead by wounds)... the 46% were substained in what is named the " funeste guerre d'Espagne (The deadly Peninsular War).

The other 68% dead were accidental dead but most of them... because of Illness: as typhus (la plus terrible de toutes les maladie = The worst disease)... followed by septicemia, malaria, pneumonia, intestinal diseases

And with regard the French Soldiers (from France) not the Empire (German, Italian, Dutch etc etc)... Les perters militaires sont dues pour plus de la moitié à la guerre d'Espagne. (about French military casualties more than half were sustained in the Peninsular War)

Cette malheureuse guerre d'Espagne m`a perdu. (Napoleon Ièr)

Interesting Sources:

Bourgeois-Pichat, Jean: Evolution générale de la population française depuis le XVIIIe siècle . 1951

Houdaille, Jacques: Le problème des pertes de guerre, Revue d'Histoire moderne et contemporaine, 1970 (about casulties in general, in French language. Interesting)

Meynier, Albert: Levées et pertes d'hommes sous le Consulat et l'Empire, Revue des Etudes napoléoniennes, 1930,
 
Likes: Kotromanic
Mar 2014
33
Paris (France)
#72
Martin76, would you mind to give your source stating that 46% of the French casualties were due to the Peninsula war ?
Because according to Houdaille, Jacques: Pertes de l'armée de terre sous le premier Empire, d'après les registres matricules, 1972 and especially this table (page 45)


The number of death during this campaign is estimated at 121 000 French and 8 000 allies (of French)* on about 900 000 French military death for the period 1803-1815 (debatable, but still according to this same source, page 42).
In this case, it would be more ~14%, which is a lot less than 46%.

* To be more technical, I took the number in the table for the sake of simplicity, but it does count a bit more than only dead people. The same source states a total death of 110 000 for the French and their allies which bring down the percentage to 12% (page 46).
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,248
Spain
#73
Martin76, would you mind to give your source stating that 46% of the French casualties were due to the Peninsula war ?
Because according to Houdaille, Jacques: Pertes de l'armée de terre sous le premier Empire, d'après les registres matricules, 1972 and especially this table (page 45)


The number of death during this campaign is estimated at 121 000 French and 8 000 allies (of French)* on about 900 000 French military death for the period 1803-1815 (debatable, but still according to this same source, page 42).
In this case, it would be more ~14%, which is a lot less than 46%.

* To be more technical, I took the number in the table for the sake of simplicity, but it does count a bit more than only dead people. The same source states a total death of 110 000 for the French and their allies which bring down the percentage to 12% (page 46).
Hi Mr Byel,

The figures of KIA and DOW in the 15th table are very interesting:

According with that table the dead in action (KIA and DOW) were 31.000 Spain, 7.000 in Russia and 19.000 in Germany. In this section, the casualties in action sustained in Spain are 54%... and in each section the casualties are higher... only in dead in cautivity (and/o dissapeared) casualties were higher. By other side, in the Prisioners and dissapeared.. the Applied methodology is different in Spain than in Germany and in Russia according to the same table.

So, the tableau indicates the casuatlies in actions in Spain, they were around 54%.. and we are talking about the three bloodiest and major campaigns (Spain, 1808-1814, Russia, 1812 and Germany 1813) if we add the campaigns in Germany 1805, 1806, Poland, 1807, France, 1814 and Belgium, 1815, the figure down to 46% around, I thingk.

The war in Spain had a dark reputation because neither French nor Spaniards used to give a truce and take prisoners. I think it is the reason because in the same text states the War in Spain caused the greatest figures in Killed in Action but not in number of Prisioners.

The Imperial Army suffered around 900.000 dead... but casualties caused by action around 32%. That means about 288.000 KIA-DOW between 1804 to 1815.

REgards,

The best way is counting one to one each dead in the Archives... both in Vincennes as in each town.
 
Dec 2017
269
Regnum Teutonicum
#74
In my oppinion the germans did most to defeat Napoleon and revolutionary France. They were the only one fighting from beginning to end in the war from 1792 to 1815. Also they were the main force in the most important allied victories, the Battle of the Nations which defeated Napoleon and his world-conquest and the Battle of Waterloo, which stopped Napoleon from staying in power in France. Also both times germans took Paris in 1814 when the french lost in the Battle of Paris against the bavarians, prussians, austrains, wuerttembergers and addiontionally the russians and in 1815 when the french lost the Battle of Issy against the prussians. Add to that the resistance, the constant uprisings of annexed and occupied territories, the guerilla warfare and so on.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,663
#76
Dear Pugsville,

The problem is in the sources.... in officer-losses Losses of Life in Modern Wars: Austria-Hungary; France Oxford : Clarendon Press; 1916. you can read in archives.org... Gaston Brodart is....very naive ... it is not based on every action, but on samplings of great battles (in a work that deals with since the Middle Ages) and I guees in Martinien´s tableaux....by other side Brodart is writing about each war from Medieval times!!!

About wikipedia I can see no Contemporanean sources...

Who wrote Napoleon suffered 46% casualties in Spain (Portugal too, of course) are French Sources...and that it ´s has been attached to the collective mind...

According with French sources, the Imperial Army between 1804 to 1815 sustained around 900.000 dead.. between them, 32% were KIA (Killed in Action) and DOW (Death of wounds).... out of that 32% that they died in action or because of action (as the dead by wounds)... the 46% were substained in what is named the " funeste guerre d'Espagne (The deadly Peninsular War).

The other 68% dead were accidental dead but most of them... because of Illness: as typhus (la plus terrible de toutes les maladie = The worst disease)... followed by septicemia, malaria, pneumonia, intestinal diseases

And with regard the French Soldiers (from France) not the Empire (German, Italian, Dutch etc etc)... Les perters militaires sont dues pour plus de la moitié à la guerre d'Espagne. (about French military casualties more than half were sustained in the Peninsular War)

Cette malheureuse guerre d'Espagne m`a perdu. (Napoleon Ièr)

Interesting Sources:

Bourgeois-Pichat, Jean: Evolution générale de la population française depuis le XVIIIe siècle . 1951

Houdaille, Jacques: Le problème des pertes de guerre, Revue d'Histoire moderne et contemporaine, 1970 (about casulties in general, in French language. Interesting)

Meynier, Albert: Levées et pertes d'hommes sous le Consulat et l'Empire, Revue des Etudes napoléoniennes, 1930,
Where exactly is the source for your claims. Can you reference things more clealry.

Source, page number quote (and trandlateto english)
 
Mar 2014
33
Paris (France)
#77
So, the tableau indicates the casuatlies in actions in Spain, they were around 54%.. and we are talking about the three bloodiest and major campaigns (Spain, 1808-1814, Russia, 1812 and Germany 1813) if we add the campaigns in Germany 1805, 1806, Poland, 1807, France, 1814 and Belgium, 1815, the figure down to 46% around, I thingk..
I understand your point but I thought here people were seeing on a more general point of view, not only KIA and DOW but all the other campaign related deaths. I admit I'm still interesting in the source stating that 46% of casualties are due to the Peninsula war.