Which ethnic groups could have been fully assimilated into larger ethnic groups?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,070
SoCal
#1
With a PoD of 1800 or later, which ethnic groups could have been fully assimilated into larger ethnic groups?

For the record, I am thinking of something similar to what the Occitans and Provencals in France experienced in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Anyway, here are my own thoughts on this:

-Had the Bolsheviks made Belarus a part of the Russian SFSR, they would have probably turned Belarusians into Russians by the end of the 20th century.
-Had Russia seized eastern Galicia sometime before 1880 and thus prevented the growth of Ukrainian nationalism there, and had Russia implemented Russifying policies throughout the 20th century, it would have probably been able to turn Ukrainians into Russians.
-Had the Bolsheviks lumped Kazakhs and Kyrgyz into one SSR in the 1920s or 1930s, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz would have probably been considered one people by now. Indeed, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz were actually lumped together on the 1897 Imperial Russian census!
-If Romania manages to avoid losing Moldova to the Soviet Union, then Moldovans would have probably become Romanians by now.
-If Bulgaria would have won WWI, Macedonians would have probably become Bulgarians by now.
-If France had avoided taking Laos from Thailand in 1893, Laotians would probably consider themselves Thai by now.
-I suppose that Tsarist Russia could have expanded Finland to include Estonia. Indeed, if this would have been done early enough (as in, in the early 1800s), perhaps Estonians would come to consider themselves Finns by now.
-I suppose that Tsarist Russia could have tried creating a common Baltic identity for Latvians and Lithuanians. Indeed, if this would have been done early enough (as in, in the early 1800s), perhaps Latvians and Lithuanians would come to consider themselves one people by now.
-Obviously had Hitler died in 1938 and Goering would have avoided sparking World War II, then Austrians would have considered themselves Germans by now.
-Had the 1802 Peace of Amiens held, France would have probably been able to completely assimilate the Walloons. (As for the Flemings, they might have ended up like Alsatians--in other words, French patriots but not fully assimilated.)
-I suppose that Hungary could have assimilated Slovaks and Ruthenians and turned them into Hungarians (Magyars) had its Magyarization program lasted up to the present-day. I do think that assimilating Serbs and Romanians would have been harder due to their different religion and that assimilating Croats would have been harder due to their history of autonomy within Hungary.

Anyway, what exactly am I missing here?
 
Dec 2017
275
Regnum Teutonicum
#2
If Napoleon had won the war, canadians could have been absorbed by the americans. The exception would be those living in a Quebec enlarged by Labrador, the puppet state/sister republic of France (maybe Newfoundland would be one of those sister republics, too).
 
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sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,383
Sydney
#3
There is a misunderstanding of the national policies of the Soviets
they were very keen on lessening the Russian influence over the USSR
that's why they cut up the empire in as many republics and autonomous oblast as they could devise
Ukraine was deliberately made as big as they could
to act as a counterweight
nationalism was of course a crime but Russian nationalism was the greater one
this policy was changed in mid 1941 when it became evident that the soldiers were not too keen on dying for Stalin
the agitprop went all out for past glories and stretched disbelief , associating the soviet union with the Rodina
of course this was overturned as early as 45
 
Apr 2017
1,186
U.S.A.
#4
Finland already had its own distinct cultural identity before the 1800's. Most notable was the Swedish influence, whereas Estonia had more German influence. Estonian is similar but different than finnish.
Lithuania has a distinct cultural identity with its association with Poland. While Latvia is more german influenced. Also Latvians are mostly protestant while Lithuanians are catholic.
That said, some additional ones:
If a Czech national identity hadn't developed they may have been assimilated by Germans like the Sorbs and Wends.
If the Teutonic Knights hadn't have been defeated the Baltic states may have become germans.
If Sweden hadn't lost Finland they may have assimilated the Finns (maybe).
If Denmark hadn't lost Norway they may have assimilated into one people.
If Mongolia hadn't broken away from china they may have been assimilated (largely by overwhelming colonization, similar to what's happening in Tibet/Xinjiang).
If France had followed through with a plan to move millions of Vietnamese to Laos (to develop it), Laos may just be NW Vietnam.
If the Hungarians hadn't settled down and Christianized, they may have been conquered and assimilated by either another steppe people (cumans maybe) or the germans.
If the Vikings hadn't lost interest in Ireland in the late 800's they may have assimilated Ireland.
If Switzerland hadn't broken away from Germany the german parts would be german states.
If the Netherlands (and flanders) hadn't been so fought over that they developed their own identity it would probably just be nw Germany.
If the Roman empire had lasted most of Europe would be a "roman" identity.
Before the battle of Manzakeret, most of asia minor was greek speaking, so if the byzantines hadn't have been defeated Greece might be a much larger state and turkey may not exist.
If Luxembourg hadn't been excluded from Germany they may have been assimilated.
Give it a few more decades and Wales may lose its identity.
If the teutonic knights had remained on the Hungarian border, they may have assimilated some of the inhabitants there.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,070
SoCal
#5
Finland already had its own distinct cultural identity before the 1800's. Most notable was the Swedish influence, whereas Estonia had more German influence. Estonian is similar but different than finnish.
Lithuania has a distinct cultural identity with its association with Poland. While Latvia is more german influenced. Also Latvians are mostly protestant while Lithuanians are catholic.
Fair points. That said, though, in regards to religion, Germany was unified in spite of some German states being mostly Catholic while other German states were mostly Protestant.

That said, some additional ones:
If a Czech national identity hadn't developed they may have been assimilated by Germans like the Sorbs and Wends.
If the Teutonic Knights hadn't have been defeated the Baltic states may have become germans.
If Sweden hadn't lost Finland they may have assimilated the Finns (maybe).
If Denmark hadn't lost Norway they may have assimilated into one people.
Yep.

If Mongolia hadn't broken away from china they may have been assimilated (largely by overwhelming colonization, similar to what's happening in Tibet/Xinjiang).
This doesn't count because the Mongols themselves would still identify as Mongols.

Also, Tibet is still more than 90% Tibetan to my knowledge.

If France had followed through with a plan to move millions of Vietnamese to Laos (to develop it), Laos may just be NW Vietnam.
Would the Laotians themselves have actually become Vietnamese, though?

If the Hungarians hadn't settled down and Christianized, they may have been conquered and assimilated by either another steppe people (cumans maybe) or the germans.
What ultimately happened to the Cumans?

If the Vikings hadn't lost interest in Ireland in the late 800's they may have assimilated Ireland.
If Switzerland hadn't broken away from Germany the german parts would be german states.
If the Netherlands (and flanders) hadn't been so fought over that they developed their own identity it would probably just be nw Germany.
If the Roman empire had lasted most of Europe would be a "roman" identity.
Before the battle of Manzakeret, most of asia minor was greek speaking, so if the byzantines hadn't have been defeated Greece might be a much larger state and turkey may not exist.
If Luxembourg hadn't been excluded from Germany they may have been assimilated.
Give it a few more decades and Wales may lose its identity.
If the teutonic knights had remained on the Hungarian border, they may have assimilated some of the inhabitants there.
Good examples! :)
 
Apr 2017
1,186
U.S.A.
#6
Fair points. That said, though, in regards to religion, Germany was unified in spite of some German states being mostly Catholic while other German states were mostly Protestant.

This doesn't count because the Mongols themselves would still identify as Mongols.

Also, Tibet is still more than 90% Tibetan to my knowledge.

Would the Laotians themselves have actually become Vietnamese, though?

What ultimately happened to the Cumans?
In regards to the Baltics, like I said Latvia was under german influence while Lithuania was under Polish influence. It was enough for them to develop their own identities.
If China moved 20 million people to Mongolia, constructing many new cities, mines and other infrastructure, the Mongolian lifestyle would be destroyed. They would have to adapt to the new circumstances, primarily as low skilled workers. The overwhelming Chinese majority would force them to adopt the language and their children would increasingly follow Chinese customs. In a few generations they would be like the Manchurians, being almost indistinguishable from the Chinese.
Xinjiang was once majority Uighur, now its almost majority Chinese. Events similar to what I stated about Mongolia are happening there.
Laos is again, something similar to what could of happened in Mongolia.
The cumans once dominated from Romania to Kazakhstan, when the mongols invaded most were absorbed into them, becoming the Tartars (and others). Many also fled into eastern Europe, most notably Hungary and Bulgaria where they were eventually assimilated into the local populace.
 
Likes: Futurist
Apr 2018
979
Upland, Sweden
#8
The Czechs and Slovaks could plausibly have remained one nation, given how close they are and how amicable their relations still are.

Visigothic panzer mentioned the Finns: while I am not sure if they could have become totally assimilated, I can see a multilingual Swedish Kingdom, with Swedish being the dominant language.

Another interesting case is what would have happened to the Swedish language hade the bible not been translated into Swedish when it was. While not a case of ethnic assimilation per se, much of the Swedish elite and the early modern equivalent of the "middle class" was effectively German speaking. Given the large regional differences, perhaps Swedish might have been similar to some of the weirder North german dialects.


Otherwise, I can see the Sami being completely assimilated had Germany won WW2 (or perhaps had no WW2 come about).

Perhaps the Alsatians could have become completely French (even more so than today... And quicker) had the French not lost in 1871.

I think minorities across the West would have been treated quite differently if it hadn't been for World War 2 to be honest, as a general rule.
 
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Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,564
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#10
Had Slovenes embraced the Illyrian theory, they might have merged with the Croats. Or they could have all get germanised, italianised and magyarised.

Rusyns are another ethnic group that will probably get absorbed fully by the majority of the countries they live in.

Kashubians in Poland (although historically they could have been fully germanised as well), Lusatian Sorbs in Germany too.

Friulians in Italy.
 
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