Which German leader was worse/caused Germany more damage: Wilhelm II or Adolf Hitler?

Worse German leader?

  • Wilhelm II

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • Adolf Hitler

    Votes: 15 88.2%

  • Total voters
    17
Dec 2011
4,573
Iowa USA
#13
Not even close. From what I’ve been reading about Wilhelm, he would have preferred to avoid a generalized European war. War was what Hitler was all about and he pushed Germany into it.
Wilhelm seems to have sincerely believed "until the last moment" that Lord Grey and even the British monarchy would be a fair broker of Germany's interests during the '14 crisis.

Wilhelm, though, is culpable for sliding into a deep contempt for Russia in the years following the UK-Russian entente of '07. Apparently he felt slighted that after Germany's assistance to the Russian Baltic fleet in its long voyage to the Far East (Russo-Japanese War), the Russians abandoned accommodation of Germany.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,898
SoCal
#14
Wilhelm seems to have sincerely believed "until the last moment" that Lord Grey and even the British monarchy would be a fair broker of Germany's interests during the '14 crisis.

Wilhelm, though, is culpable for sliding into a deep contempt for Russia in the years following the UK-Russian entente of '07. Apparently he felt slighted that after Germany's assistance to the Russian Baltic fleet in its long voyage to the Far East (Russo-Japanese War), the Russians abandoned accommodation of Germany.
If Wilhelm wanted to have good ties with Russia, he should have refrained from following Bismarck's mistake and choosing Austria-Hungary over Russia. Allying with Russia would have been better since that way Austria-Hungary would have also had to go along if it didn't want to risk getting dismembered at some future point in time.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,898
SoCal
#15
Also, one wonders--if Willy would have offered to have Germany and Austria-Hungary both join the Franco-Russian alliance, what would France and Russia have said in regards to this? No unless you agree to give up Alsace-Lorraine and to give Russia a free hand in the Balkans?
 
Dec 2011
4,573
Iowa USA
#16
Also, one wonders--if Willy would have offered to have Germany and Austria-Hungary both join the Franco-Russian alliance, what would France and Russia have said in regards to this? No unless you agree to give up Alsace-Lorraine and to give Russia a free hand in the Balkans?

:)

Going a bit off topic here, will send you a PM later.
 
Likes: Futurist
Dec 2011
4,573
Iowa USA
#17
If Wilhelm wanted to have good ties with Russia, he should have refrained from following Bismarck's mistake and choosing Austria-Hungary over Russia. Allying with Russia would have been better since that way Austria-Hungary would have also had to go along if it didn't want to risk getting dismembered at some future point in time.
Well, of course, Wilhelm wasn't making this choice in a domestic politics vacuum, either.

It seems that Wilhelm was much more of a liberal minded person on the topic of religious liberty than was Bismarck. Wilhelm was gaining friends in the Catholic regions of Germany with this choice of bolstering the Austrian regime. (Though one would have to admit that relations of the Bavarian monarchy with Austria weren't always friendly, also.)
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,898
SoCal
#18
Well, of course, Wilhelm wasn't making this choice in a domestic politics vacuum, either.

It seems that Wilhelm was much more of a liberal minded person on the topic of religious liberty than was Bismarck. Wilhelm was gaining friends in the Catholic regions of Germany with this choice of bolstering the Austrian regime. (Though one would have to admit that relations of the Bavarian monarchy with Austria weren't always friendly, also.)
Would German Catholics have actually been that offended if Austria-Hungary was thrown under the bus, though? I mean, one would think that German Catholics might welcome such a move if it results in A-H's eventual partition and the annexation of a lot more Catholics to the German Reich. More Catholics inside of Germany means more Catholic political power in Germany.
 
Dec 2011
4,573
Iowa USA
#20
Would German Catholics have actually been that offended if Austria-Hungary was thrown under the bus, though? I mean, one would think that German Catholics might welcome such a move if it results in A-H's eventual partition and the annexation of a lot more Catholics to the German Reich. More Catholics inside of Germany means more Catholic political power in Germany.
Well, I'm probably going to do a little psychological projection with this remark, BUT, I'd say Catholics of the 1890s had a generally high level of respect for the Habsburgs and would have not imagined Austria being incorporated into the holdings of the Lutheran Hohenzollerns. The oldest part of the population were children when Francis had to surrender the title of HRE, you know? A lot of respect for tradition in the Catholic mindset, of course, for others reading this, YMMV (your mileage may vary).
 
Likes: Futurist

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