White slaves .

May 2011
13,738
Navan, Ireland
#31
The US and Britain both banned the slave trade in 1809. Was Britain stopping slave ships in 1812 at a difficult point in the Napoleonic Wars? There were no legal US ships involved in the slave trade. Is there any evidence for that claim you make?

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The British formed the 'Preventive' or West African squadron in 1808 and it was active through most of the 19th century -- its size varied and especially during Napoleonic wars was often small.

However it did take slavers and many were American but the Americans greatly resented this interference with their 'trade'.

They briefly sent a ship or two -- but embarrassingly for the government caught American slavers rather than proving the dastardly British had been untruthful and the ships were honest traders.

The slavers responded but build fast and better slavers such as Baltimore clippers. Ironically the RN capture one of these brought it into service as HMS Black Joke and it proved to be the most successful anti-slave ship of the period.
 
May 2011
13,738
Navan, Ireland
#32
I'm currently reading a book by Mary Stockwell. She talks a lot about the Treaty of Ghent and the points discussed between the delegations. What's your source for impressed men being paid?
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Just looked at the chapter on impressment and no-where does it say they were not paid----- they were sailors the same as all others.



Doesn't say anything about them not being paid.


Goes into great detail about its multi-national crew and again mention nothing about them being not paid.


Discussed impressment in detail and if I remember correctly makes the point that pressed men often 'volunteered' in order to receive their bounty.



Not mentioned here either.

"....Sailors who were recruited by the press gangs were treated as ordinary sailors, with the same wages and terms of service as any other British sailor...."

A reasonable discussion of the question.

https://www.quora.com/Did-the-Briti...Royal-Naval-service-in-the-early-19th-century
 
Aug 2018
284
Southern Indiana
#33
Impressed is not the same as recruited. Secondly you keep reiterating the negative, that it does NOT mention them NOT being paid. Does it ever mention that IMPRESSED men were paid?
 
May 2011
13,738
Navan, Ireland
#34
Impressed is not the same as recruited. Secondly you keep reiterating the negative, that it does NOT mention them NOT being paid. Does it ever mention that IMPRESSED men were paid?
It does not say that they were not paid, as it would if 'American sailors' were kept as virtual salves but 'pressed' men were given the same conditions as volunteers.

Just quickly looked to see if Jon Latimer says anything about it in



Again he does not -- but he does outline how corrupt American issuing of 'protections' was so that many 'American sailors' would not have been actually American.

But does make the point that if you could prove your American citizenship you were realised.

On page 17 "......Uriah Levy was impressed in 1808 and realised by Rear-Admiral Cochrane who 'on inspecting my protection and the duplicate of my indentures which were fortunately in my possession, ordered me realised and to be paid for my services'..."

They would have to be paid because it would have been illegal otherwise-- because they couldn't be American and serve against their will.
 
May 2011
13,738
Navan, Ireland
#36
This refers to "forced labor", sometimes in chains with no mention of compensation. Interestingly, this points out that the US also used the practice.

The War of 1812: Stoking the Fires
Interesting article thanks.

It says he was punished in such away because he 'deserted', I knew discipline in the USN was every bit as harsh as in the RN but hadn't read about them practicing impressment , although it shouldn't be a surprise since they effectively came from the same 'gene pool'. Its estimated that perhaps upwards of 40-50% of sailors on American merchant ships were 'British'.

I am surprised that the American had to resort to it-- a small Navy-- the British only used it during war-time but I suppose they suffered from one of the same problems as the British during war-time because the RN needed so many sailors (Lavery quotes 118,000 qualified sailors at the out break of war in the UK--- the RN strength was set at 120,000 during war-time!) the merchant service offered much higher pay.

Perhaps that's what your sources is alluding to-- compensation for the loss of pay compared to that they could have earned in the merchant service?
 
Aug 2018
284
Southern Indiana
#37
Interesting article thanks.

It says he was punished in such away because he 'deserted', I knew discipline in the USN was every bit as harsh as in the RN but hadn't read about them practicing impressment , although it shouldn't be a surprise since they effectively came from the same 'gene pool'. Its estimated that perhaps upwards of 40-50% of sailors on American merchant ships were 'British'.

I am surprised that the American had to resort to it-- a small Navy-- the British only used it during war-time but I suppose they suffered from one of the same problems as the British during war-time because the RN needed so many sailors (Lavery quotes 118,000 qualified sailors at the out break of war in the UK--- the RN strength was set at 120,000 during war-time!) the merchant service offered much higher pay.

Perhaps that's what your sources is alluding to-- compensation for the loss of pay compared to that they could have earned in the merchant service?

I don't know, but this thread now has me insanely curious to know for certain whether or not impressed sailors were ever paid. I still don't think they were. Impressed sailors were generally accused of being deserters to the Crown, but did that forfeit them from any pay for the 12 year duration of their captivity.
 
May 2011
13,738
Navan, Ireland
#39
I don't know, but this thread now has me insanely curious to know for certain whether or not impressed sailors were ever paid. I still don't think they were. Impressed sailors were generally accused of being deserters to the Crown, but did that forfeit them from any pay for the 12 year duration of their captivity.
I would say they were paid-- because about half the fleet were manned by 'pressed' men, remember officially there were 'no Americans' pressed because that would be illegal, you can't not pay half the fleet. Now of course in reality there were and many of the 'Americans' pressed weren't actually Americans.

Pressed man could simply be sailors-- some may have been deserters and they may well have faced punishment, one accusation was that sailors voluntarily enlisted in order to receive their 'bounty' and then 'ran'. These people it was agreed could be taken by the RN even if they were Americans-- it wasn't an uncommon activity.