Who was an important Spartan person while the Peloponnesian War was going on?

Nov 2011
1,051
The Bluff
I'm 66 years old and you don't know me, so I could be a bald faced liar...that is a given. However I have been in love with Sparta since I first saw this image in a history book my father brought home. He was getting his GED in the military and he fed my love of history.It was in this history book that I learned of Sparta and it was here they said a man had to have a living heir before he could leave the lands Sparta controlled. That was 59 years ago. the ancients wrote about them. I discount 99% of what modern writers claim. .
I imagine that's a "no" to all questions? It's also no surprise you "discount 99% of what "modern writers claim" regarding Sparta in favour of your own views. Views which include women beating Spartan boys to death because they were homosexual.

Read Plutarch's Lykurgos, Sayings of the Spartans, Customs of the Spartans or Xenophon's Lakedaimonian Constitution. There is not one reference to any such law forbidding Spartans to serve outside the Peloponnese unless they'd sons. I'd expect if such existed, it would be mentioned among that lot. What we likely have here is an assumption that this was normal due to Leonidas choosing 300 homoioi with sons to serve as his guard (as no one was coming home) rather than the regular hippeis, but nothing, that I'm aware of, supports this. Again, Spartans died as easily within the Pelop[onnese as they did outside of it.
 
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Sep 2014
939
Texas
I imagine that's a "no" to all questions? It's also no surprise you "discount 99% of what "modern writers claim" regarding Sparta in favour of your own views. Views which include women beating Spartan boys to death because they were homosexual.

Read Plutarch's Lykurgos, Sayings of the Spartans, Customs of the Spartans or Xenophon's Lakedaimonian Constitution. There is not one reference to any such law forbidding Spartans to serve outside the Peloponnese unless they'd sons. I'd expect if such existed, it would be mentioned among that lot. What we likely have here is an assumption that this was normal due to Leonidas choosing 300 homoioi with sons to serve as his guard (as no one was coming home) rather than the regular hippeis, but nothing, that I'm aware of, supports this. Again, Spartans died as easily within the Pelop[onnese as they did outside of it.
I actually mentioned that discussion just the other day and how I escaped with my life for asking it. But the fact you bring it up here probably means this is a continuation of that. Look, think whatever you want....it only makes sense that a man leaving his homeland would want to have heirs (which became daughters as well). Lysander had at least two daughters that we know of. Agelaus II had two children. Archidamus had three famous. And I have a very old copy of Plutarch and Thucycides and Herodotus. I also read Xenophon.

Yes, they died easily whenever mortally wounded....that happens. But the most famous deaths seem to have occurred outside of Sparta.`
 
Nov 2011
1,051
The Bluff
I actually mentioned that discussion just the other day and how I escaped with my life for asking it. But the fact you bring it up here probably means this is a continuation of that.
No, it was simply another example of you stating what you consider fact. Rather than asking, you claimed and asked to be proven wrong. When challenged, you produced a novel about Leonidas as evidence. I do wonder if the current "fact" comes from the third of that trilogy? Seemingly not as your source is a book from decades ago which you no longer have.

Look, think whatever you want....it only makes sense that a man leaving his homeland would want to have heirs (which became daughters as well). Lysander had at least two daughters that we know of. Agelaus II had two children. Archidamus had three famous.
It's not about "thinking what you want", it's about the sources and evidence. That the three you mention had children is of no import; it says nothing about those without. A Spartan left his "homeland" once he left Lakedaimonia. The Peloponnesus was not his homeland.

And I have a very old copy of Plutarch and Thucycides and Herodotus. I also read Xenophon.
Then I'd suggest you re-read them.

Yes, they died easily whenever mortally wounded....that happens. But the most famous deaths seem to have occurred outside of Sparta.`
How many wars did Sparta fight within Lakedaimonia? None since the helot revolt and until Thebes invaded. It is plainly obvious that Spartans killed fighting her many wars outside of Lakedaimonia, are going to die outside of Lakedaimonia. Famous or nonentities. Childless or the Lakedaimonian version of Pa Kettle. One plus one equals two.
 
Sep 2014
939
Texas
No, it was simply another example of you stating what you consider fact. Rather than asking, you claimed and asked to be proven wrong. When challenged, you produced a novel about Leonidas as evidence. I do wonder if the current "fact" comes from the third of that trilogy? Seemingly not as your source is a book from decades ago which you no longer have.



It's not about "thinking what you want", it's about the sources and evidence. That the three you mention had children is of no import; it says nothing about those without. A Spartan left his "homeland" once he left Lakedaimonia. The Peloponnesus was not his homeland.



Then I'd suggest you re-read them.



How many wars did Sparta fight within Lakedaimonia? None since the helot revolt and until Thebes invaded. It is plainly obvious that Spartans killed fighting her many wars outside of Lakedaimonia, are going to die outside of Lakedaimonia. Famous or nonentities. Childless or the Lakedaimonian version of Pa Kettle. One plus one equals two.
and a math wizard too? Wow I am blessed with your obnoxious attention. You haven't changed my mind...I do believe that the high priestess holding the statue of Artemis could well have had boys punished more severely if they thought they were gay...although in ancient Sparta they believed everyone needed to get married and it was a choice to be contrary. And yeah, I can see the men in charge not wanting to let young men leave unless they had kids. All you've done is convince me you are an arrogant snob.
Now you go and read the books. And I mean really read it. And I won't be answering anymore of your idiot responses. There's enough intelligent men who know how to have a conversation without being an ass.
 
Nov 2011
1,051
The Bluff
You haven't changed my mind...
No, I didn't think I would somehow. Pity.

And I won't be answering anymore of your idiot responses. There's enough intelligent men who know how to have a conversation without being an ass.
I wasn't aware that challenging statements and asking for the evidence behind them (even suggesting sources) was an "idiot response" or being an "ass". I've seen no evidence as such in those sources but perhaps you do. Perhaps Herodotus mentions such but I cannot call it to mind. Maybe you can. Hence the questioning or "idiot responses".

I thought the Pa Kettle reference was mildly humourous at least....