Who was creator of BMAC?

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,691
Australia
Making up things and calling them facts doesn't make them real.

In other words you don't have a proof.
He's gone now .

We should probably do the Mods a favor and 'self close ' this thread that he started . However , if anyone wants to further discuss BMAC reasonably , I suggest start another thread .
 
Mar 2015
949
Europe
We should probably do the Mods a favor and 'self close ' this thread that he started . However , if anyone wants to further discuss BMAC reasonably , I suggest start another thread .
I prefer to give the reasonable replies to stupid questions in context.
 
Nov 2014
1,980
Bhuloka
There is an opinion, that it was not aryans. This is a strange, considering there was just aryans region, and around it there were aryan cultures like Tocharians of Tarim, Andronovo and so on.
But if to assume that these were not Aryans, then who is it, what peoples?
BMAC was inhabited by people who were distantly related to early Zagrosian farming cultures. Of course, they were not (Proto) Indo Iranians.
 
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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,952
New Delhi, India
Too far away, IMHO. There were other people in Central Asia / Mongolia.
 
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Mar 2015
1,510
Yorkshire
Too far away, IMHO. There were other people in Central Asia / Mongolia.
Central Asia is a possibility but I think we can rule out Mongolia or the Eastern Steppe. The flow of cereals especially millet and domesticated animals was from West to East in the Eastern Steppe and East Asia, mostly in the First Century BC.

Only really likely candidate for a Central Asian provenance are the Mesolithic Hunter-gather, Fishermen, the Keltaminar whose grounds stretched from the foothills of Northern Iran to Kazakstan, North of the Aral and Caspian culminating in the Botai.

However I have come around to believing Tum Sum's contention that BMAC developed out of in-coming Neothilic farmers from South West Iran (and probably Copper workers later).

Here is a reasonable summary of my views (taken from a recent paper):

" Although local climatic conditions may have frequently been unfavourable during the Neolithic (Dirksen and van Geel 2004), agriculture has been present since around 8 ky BP (Djeitun, Turkmenistan) (Dani and Masson 1992; Harris et al. 1996) and has dispersed during the Bronze Age (5-4 ky BP), in coexistence with hunter-gatherer communities. The origins of many of the first domesticated animals and plants likely lie in Southwestern Asia, and hence perhaps these farmers also came from that area (Harris 1997; Brunet 1999). The pastoral nomadic lifestyle, linked to the domestication of horses (Warmuth et al. 2012), emerged in Central Asia around 5 ky BP, and gained importance during the late Bronze Age (2nd millennium BC) "

The first farmers in the area that is later identified as BMAC,and that are referred to above, is the Jeitun civilisation of around 6000 BCE. Significantly the barley and the corn that this civilisation grew was domesticated in Western Iran, as were the sheep. It is possible that Jeitun were the first to domesticate the Goat which comes from a local variety in the region. However the variety of Eikorn wheat and barley found locally were not used.
 
Mar 2015
949
Europe
However I have come around to believing Tum Sum's contention that BMAC developed out of in-coming Neothilic farmers from South West Iran (and probably Copper workers later).
Elamites and Sumerians lived close to each other, but were completely unrelated.
Where were the main Bronze Age tin mines in Iranian highlands and the main trade routes supplying tin to Bronze Age Mesopotamia and Anatolia? (Or, for the matter, Bronze Age India?)
 
Mar 2015
1,510
Yorkshire
Elamites and Sumerians lived close to each other, but were completely unrelated.
Where were the main Bronze Age tin mines in Iranian highlands and the main trade routes supplying tin to Bronze Age Mesopotamia and Anatolia? (Or, for the matter, Bronze Age India?)
No tin in the Iranian Highlands. At the early stage of course it was arsenic copper and lead doped copper. Tin (as I have mentioned before valued at 10 times the price of Silver) was mined in the later Bronze age in the SyrDarya area, Zerafshan.

Two mines - one full of Andronovo pottery and artifacts, the other with a couple of shards of BMAC wheel thrown pottery - possible conclusion an IE and a BMAC tin site?

Map might help:
central asia map.JPG

There was a gradual movement West to East of the BMAC civilisation - Zerafshan was an outlier for BMAC

Superb BMAC finds in Altyn-tepe include seals with "writing" similar to proto-Elamite. But also a couple of Harappan seals (one a Swastika). Now by 3000 BCE, there was a well developed trading triangle South West Iran to BMAC to Harrapan and then by Sea to South East Iran.
 
Mar 2015
949
Europe
No tin in the Iranian Highlands. At the early stage of course it was arsenic copper and lead doped copper. Tin (as I have mentioned before valued at 10 times the price of Silver) was mined in the later Bronze age in the SyrDarya area, Zerafshan.
Tin was exported as far as Anatolia. And around Kanesh, we have letters from the merchants who carried tin there in 19th century BC - in return for silver.
Tin was cheaper than silver.
In Anatolia, it was around 7 weights of tin for 1 weight of silver.
The Assyrians suffered appreciable transport costs, or earned profits. In Assyria, the price was about 15 weights of tin for 1 weight of silver.
Both of those prices fluctuated with market conditions - like, sometimes it was 12 in Assyria, sometimes 14.
But tin was not mined in Assyria. It was imported.
How did the other leg work? What was the tin/silver price ratio at Zeravshan mines? Bigger than 15, but how much bigger?

Two mines - one full of Andronovo pottery and artifacts, the other with a couple of shards of BMAC wheel thrown pottery - possible conclusion an IE and a BMAC tin site?
But Mesopotamia was importing tin. What was Mesopotamia exporting in return for tin?
There was a gradual movement West to East of the BMAC civilisation - Zerafshan was an outlier for BMAC

Superb BMAC finds in Altyn-tepe include seals with "writing" similar to proto-Elamite. But also a couple of Harappan seals (one a Swastika).
Seal matrices or seal impressions?
Now by 3000 BCE, there was a well developed trading triangle South West Iran to BMAC to Harrapan and then by Sea to South East Iran.
What was traded on BMAC/Harappan leg?