Who were the "Sea People"

Dec 2011
1,725
#3
Ya know, those credited with attacks on Ancient Egypt and Mycenean Greeks in the 12 - 11 century BC.


Who do you think they most likely were? Considering we dont have an origin.
Obviously, we can only guess.

Cline 1 speculates "...perhaps in Sicily, Sardinia, and Italy, according to one scenario, perhaps in the Aegean or western Anatolia, or possibly even Cyprus or the Eastern Mediterranean."

Also, per Cline, we don't know that the "sea peoples" should be the only "groups" credited with the attacks at the end of the Bronze Age.

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1. Cline, Eric H. 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed. Princeton University Press, 2014. From the Prologue.
 
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Mar 2018
264
UK
#4
There are more knowledge people than me here, but isn't the idea of an eastern-Mediterranean wide phenomenon fairly discredited now? Same thing with the late-bronze age collapse.
 
Dec 2011
1,725
#5
There are more knowledge people than me here, but isn't the idea of an eastern-Mediterranean wide phenomenon fairly discredited now? Same thing with the late-bronze age collapse.
Just the opposite from what I understand.

Per Cline, recent studies have determined that there was an extended drought at work that was probably fatal to the various kingdoms in the Mediterranean area.

It was a perfect storm of climate change, drought, trade route disruptions, increase in populations and etc. that the kingdoms could not support.
 

Nemowork

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
8,169
South of the barcodes
#6
Obviously, we can only guess.

Cline 1 speculates "...perhaps in Sicily, Sardinia, and Italy, according to one scenario, perhaps in the Aegean or western Anatolia, or possibly even Cyprus or the Eastern Mediterranean."

Also, per Cline, we don't know that the "sea peoples" should be the only "groups" credited with the attacks at the end of the Bronze Age.

-------------------------
1. Cline, Eric H. 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed. Princeton University Press, 2014. From the Prologue.
For those who want a quick overview, he does a quite good presentation

 
Feb 2011
737
Kitchener. Ont.
#7
Just the opposite from what I understand.

Per Cline, recent studies have determined that there was an extended drought at work that was probably fatal to the various kingdoms in the Mediterranean area.
A drought in Anatolia would explain the grain shipment sent to Hatti by Merneptah, but the pharaoh appears to feel betrayed by Hatti, as he then blames Hatti for the subsequent unrest against Egypt. This is what historians interpret as the beginnings of the Sea Peoples war - the first phase, as some describe it.

It was a perfect storm of climate change, drought, trade route disruptions, increase in populations and etc. that the kingdoms could not support.
We should find traces of evidence of all these situations everywhere across the ancient world. Cline doesn't believe in a sudden end to the Bronze Age, neither do I. More of a gradual decline. The climate is always changing, drought was periodical, trade routes always under attack, populations always on the increase.
Looking for a special scenario will not explain the Sea People phenomena, it isn't necessary.
 
Likes: Rovi
Jan 2015
2,682
MD, USA
#8
A drought in Anatolia would explain the grain shipment sent to Hatti by Merneptah, but the pharaoh appears to feel betrayed by Hatti, as he then blames Hatti for the subsequent unrest against Egypt. This is what historians interpret as the beginnings of the Sea Peoples war - the first phase, as some describe it.



We should find traces of evidence of all these situations everywhere across the ancient world. Cline doesn't believe in a sudden end to the Bronze Age, neither do I. More of a gradual decline. The climate is always changing, drought was periodical, trade routes always under attack, populations always on the increase.
Looking for a special scenario will not explain the Sea People phenomena, it isn't necessary.
Thank you!! It was pointed out long ago that the whole concept of "SEA PEOPLES" is a 19th century invention, blown completely out of proportion from the Medinet Habu inscriptions. Which are probably describing an entirely local event. Sure, there was warfare all over the place, and piracy, and people on the move, and bad weather, all of which happened all the time (and still do). The Bronze Age ended because iron production increased, which is really not a sign of "collapse" but of prosperity.

Add to this the whole messed-up chronology and too many experts simply repeating the same tired tropes and chesnuts, and it's almost pointless to try any serious research on the era. But we can start by saying "sea people", as the Egyptians did, and not capitalizing it and making it out to be some global plague of human locusts sweeping across thousands of miles eradicating every civilization in their path. Which clearly didn't happen.

And it wasn't in "1177", either, but that's another whole argument!

Matthew
 
Dec 2011
1,725
#9
Thank you!! It was pointed out long ago that the whole concept of "SEA PEOPLES" is a 19th century invention, blown completely out of proportion from the Medinet Habu inscriptions. Which are probably describing an entirely local event. Sure, there was warfare all over the place, and piracy, and people on the move, and bad weather, all of which happened all the time (and still do). The Bronze Age ended because iron production increased, which is really not a sign of "collapse" but of prosperity.

Add to this the whole messed-up chronology and too many experts simply repeating the same tired tropes and chesnuts, and it's almost pointless to try any serious research on the era. But we can start by saying "sea people", as the Egyptians did, and not capitalizing it and making it out to be some global plague of human locusts sweeping across thousands of miles eradicating every civilization in their path. Which clearly didn't happen.

And it wasn't in "1177", either, but that's another whole argument!

Matthew
So there were zero "sea peoples" ? That is not what Cline indicates. He does say that their influence was probably greatly exaggerated. Otherwise, we cannot know for sure. Of course, a lot depends on how we define "sea peoples" and cline goes into this as well.

Pointed out long ago ? Clines book was published in 2014 ? Is that what you mean about long ago ?

I thought the conversation was accounting for the collapse of multiple kingdoms over the course of a few decades ?

Okay, iron production, what does that have to do with the disappearance of the Hittite Empire ? Bad weather ? There was a gully washer and the Hittite Empire folded ?

Also, apparently, Cline was disgruntled with the "1177" title but that was a publishers decision based on a new fangled dating scheme in play. Cline refers to "just after 1200BC" in his prologue.

Cline is introducing multiple evidentiary layers to inform us of the latest scientific developments. e.g. latest work on dating "destructive layers" and studies on the scope of the drought (which was apparently more than just bad weather)
 
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Dec 2011
1,725
#10
We should find traces of evidence of all these situations everywhere across the ancient world. Cline doesn't believe in a sudden end to the Bronze Age, neither do I. More of a gradual decline. The climate is always changing, drought was periodical, trade routes always under attack, populations always on the increase.
Looking for a special scenario will not explain the Sea People phenomena, it isn't necessary.
I think that is Clines point. He writes that "...most of the sites in Anatolia were simply either completely or mostly abandoned at this time, rather than put to the torch by the Sea Peoples." see [1] in previous post. p156.

IOW, there was a global shift or transition underway that was obviously a factor in the destablization. Also that this transition had been underway for some time. Of course, there are amply documented "destruction zones" in archeological records indicating some "invasion" activity but the application of this to a broad generalized "sea peoples" invasion does not hold up. Clearly, there were multiple forces at work.

To paraphrase Cline: absent the earthquakes, drought, famine, migrants, invaders had not happened would the late Bronze age have come to an end anyway ? And Cline's answer: "Of course, these are rhetorical questions, and ones that cannot be answered, because the Bronze Age civilizations did come to an end and development did essentially have to begin completely anew..." [1] Cline, p176.
 
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