Who were the Sea Peoples?

Jun 2017
80
Thailand
That all could have happened as easily in 900 as in 1200. We don't know that all those palaces burned simultaneously, for starters. And some of them were not burnt.

There are chronological problems with the Greek alphabet, too--they seem to have adopted one which was used (ta-daaa!) 300 years before by someone else. But I don't see the presence of a writing system as being mutually exclusive of oral story-telling, though that's not my area of study.

What decline in art? There was good and bad art in the Mycenaean era, and afterwards. Sure, the Geometric stuff is stylistically different from, say, the Pylos wall frescoes, but again, so what? Doesn't make them centuries different in date. Some high-end things like ivory carving and cast bronze tripods exist before and after the "Dark Ages", with no change, but no apparently connection. The ideas people have cooked up to explain how such arts could be preserved in "perishable materials" are just wacked-out and lunatic.

Matthew
Well, we know that the historical Biblical Philistines were one of the see peoples. And that the Philistines. Dwelt in Canaan modern Israel by the 12th century BC. When they began interacting with early Israelite culture.

And the biblical evidence ties the historical exodus. To the 13th century BC and the 19th dynasty of Ramses and Seti. That would have been the only time a store city would have been called the House of Ramses, Pi Ramses

and all of that agrees with the conventional Greek historical dating of the Trojan War. to. The time of the see peoples in the early 12th century. BC.
 

Dan Howard

Ad Honorem
Aug 2014
3,820
Australia
Well, we know that the historical Biblical Philistines were one of the see peoples. And that the Philistines. Dwelt in Canaan modern Israel by the 12th century BC. When they began interacting with early Israelite culture.

And the biblical evidence ties the historical exodus. To the 13th century BC and the 19th dynasty of Ramses and Seti. That would have been the only time a store city would have been called the House of Ramses, Pi Ramses

and all of that agrees with the conventional Greek historical dating of the Trojan War. to. The time of the see peoples in the early 12th century. BC.
Perhaps you should actually read this thread because we've already covered this nonsense. All the archaeological digs in the region suggest that there was an ongoing cultural exchange between the Philistines and the locals for centuries. It started around the 15th century and continued right through to the Iron Age. There was no invasion and no mass migration.
 
Jun 2017
80
Thailand
Perhaps you should actually read this thread because we've already covered this nonsense. All the archaeological digs in the region suggest that there was an ongoing cultural exchange between the Philistines and the locals for centuries. It started around the 15th century and continued right through to the Iron Age. There was no invasion and no mass migration.
You're saying move the Chronology back 300 years. Make everything 300 years more ancient?

We know that the historical Saul and David lived in the late 11th century. Busy. And they were already at odds with Philistines.

The Philistines could not have shown up hundreds of years later. After the tel Dan stele and black obelisk . Record. The successors of David and Omri
 
Jan 2015
2,813
MD, USA
Well, we know that the historical Biblical Philistines were one of the see peoples.
No, that's a modern conclusion based on word similarity which may be superficial.


And that the Philistines. Dwelt in Canaan modern Israel by the 12th century BC. When they began interacting with early Israelite culture.

And the biblical evidence ties the historical exodus. To the 13th century BC and the 19th dynasty of Ramses and Seti. That would have been the only time a store city would have been called the House of Ramses, Pi Ramses
Certainly the Philistines existed, and interacted with or made war on their neighbors, that's practically a cultural universal. But just which pharaohs are referred to in the Bible is NOT certain at all, and it makes a huge difference with the dating.

and all of that agrees with the conventional Greek historical dating of the Trojan War. to. The time of the see peoples in the early 12th century. BC.
Except that the dates are wrong, due to inaccurate reconstruction of the Egyptian King List.

You're saying move the Chronology back 300 years. Make everything 300 years more ancient?
NO! Exactly the opposite. *Remove* 300 years from dates before 900, so that 1200 becomes 900, etc. It may "taper down" towards the end, with some dates of 900 moving forward a few decades, etc., but I'll leave that to the guys with all the actual evidence at their fingertips.

We know that the historical Saul and David lived in the late 11th century. Busy. And they were already at odds with Philistines.

The Philistines could not have shown up hundreds of years later. After the tel Dan stele and black obelisk . Record. The successors of David and Omri
Again, no problem with those people interacting with each other, it just happened with different dates. Much more will align logically once those dates are fixed, and things that aligned before can still align. Relative dates are not the same as absolute dates--it is the absolute dates that need to be changed.

Matthew
 
Oct 2013
5,898
Planet Nine, Oregon
I think in this case we will just have to wait and see. I haven't had a chance to re-read Centuries of Darkness, but radiocarbon dates and dendrochronology, though they may be dodgy, keep pushing the date back in time -- even if they are off by200 years, that would just re-establish current chrono!ogy. Mycenae did collapse, and written language was lost. Pylos and other places also destroyed. I'm not against low chronology, just need to see more proof. Perhaps it would help if you guys summarized some of the main points of evidence in the book for others who have not seen it?
 
Last edited:
Oct 2013
5,898
Planet Nine, Oregon
Here they suggest:

'Shardana may have been an Egyptian-Levantine term for maritime mercenaries from one, or a number of countries. While actually rejecting it, Albright long ago hit upon a perfectly good etymology for (the El-Amarna) Shardana in W. Semitic šrdu, meaning “servitor”. We have thus yet to exclude the awkward possibility that the name Shardana was not originally an ethnic or geographic term, but one for a class or type – and that this name was given by the Phoenicians to the island as it was frequented or inhabited by people of the Shardana-type. Further study of the terminology for the other erstwhile “Sea Peoples”, in Egyptian, Levantine and Hittite texts, may throw light on the problem.'

So, perhaps mercenaries; folks like Odysseus and his nine ships of men, with horned helmets and big round shields?
 
Likes: Massenzio
Aug 2018
202
Italy
Here they suggest:

'Shardana may have been an Egyptian-Levantine term for maritime mercenaries from one, or a number of countries. While actually rejecting it, Albright long ago hit upon a perfectly good etymology for (the El-Amarna) Shardana in W. Semitic šrdu, meaning “servitor”. We have thus yet to exclude the awkward possibility that the name Shardana was not originally an ethnic or geographic term, but one for a class or type – and that this name was given by the Phoenicians to the island as it was frequented or inhabited by people of the Shardana-type. Further study of the terminology for the other erstwhile “Sea Peoples”, in Egyptian, Levantine and Hittite texts, may throw light on the problem.'

So, perhaps mercenaries; folks like Odysseus and his nine ships of men, with horned helmets and big round shields?
This theory is supported by other archaeologists such as A.Stiglitz who thinks the term was used to label a type of foreign mercenaries in general and not a specifical ethnicity, and that it came to be used for Sardinians as the Nuragics might have been one of those foreign mercenary in the Levant. The term SRDN was written in the Phoenician alphabet in the Nora Stone in Sardinia, to label either the inhabitants or the island, the inscription dates to the 9th-8th century bc. In about 15 epigraphs from Carthage the name SRDNT/SRDNY is apparently used to label foreign Sardinians in the city, and it's the most common foreign ethnicity attested in epigraphs in Carthage along with MSRT (Egyptian)
 

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