Who were the Sea Peoples?

[Wickerman]

If the Egyptian term 'Shardana' indicated a class of person (much like is proposed for the term Habiru), then do any of these theorists (Stiglitz, etc.) explain why the Egyptian term is accompanied with the 'foreign + land' determinative centuries before the Phoenicians used the name SRDN for the island?

 

[Todd Feinman]

philistines - Google Search
Not a surprise!

 

[Rodger]

Recent events, which cannot be discussed here, would seem to strongly support that the Philistines were the Sea Peoples - or at least a primary force within that group. They apparently came from what is now SE Europe.

 

[MamlukWarrior]

Recent events, which cannot be discussed here, would seem to strongly support that the Philistines were the Sea Peoples - or at least a primary force within that group. They apparently came from what is now SE Europe.

SE Europe being Greek, Dorian, Greek peoples on the Western coast of Anatolia?

If that's what they're pointing to then I said this all along, in particular with my discussions with Dan Howard about 3-4 pages back.

There was too many indicators to think anything else.

Aegean pottery and weapons (could of been imports but seem to be favored by the Philistines over local products) then for me the big one which is A) a notable difference between the Semtic locals and Philistines in the way they are addressed by other peoples from the Israelite all the way to the Assyrians and Babylonians who all spoke of and treated the Philistines as alien to these lands.

Philistines didn't just have a "reputation" among their enemies, they were spoken of quite distinctively as something different.

Then B) The Egyptians who are the foremost experts on the Sea Peoples in the Middle East having dealt with numerous waves of them either against or hiring into their army.
They specifically mention the Philistines as being the Peleset ......... who were Sea Peoples.

I had no doubt they were Southern European, also factoring in sailing distances travelled in that age, a large number of peoples travelling via sea would likely for me be within a few countries distance wise, Anatolia, Greece, Crete, Cyprus or even Sardinia at a push were the prevalent theories I paid most heed to.

"The authors of the Hebrew Bible made it clear that the Philistines were not like them: This "uncircumcised" group is described in several passages as coming from the "Land of Caphtor" (modern-day Crete) before taking control of the coastal region of what is now southern Israel and the Gaza Strip "

This as well, would perfectly believe they were from Crete, in fact I'd say at least one wave of Sea peoples that this would be highly likely and explain all of the above factors.

 

[Rodger]

SE Europe being Greek, Dorian, Greek peoples on the Western coast of Anatolia?

If that's what they're pointing to then I said this all along, in particular with my discussions with Dan Howard about 3-4 pages back.

There was too many indicators to think anything else.

Aegean pottery and weapons (could of been imports but seem to be favored by the Philistines over local products) then for me the big one which is A) a notable difference between the Semtic locals and Philistines in the way they are addressed by other peoples from the Israelite all the way to the Assyrians and Babylonians who all spoke of and treated the Philistines as alien to these lands.

Philistines didn't just have a "reputation" among their enemies, they were spoken of quite distinctively as something different.

Then B) The Egyptians who are the foremost experts on the Sea Peoples in the Middle East having dealt with numerous waves of them either against or hiring into their army.
They specifically mention the Philistines as being the Peleset ......... who were Sea Peoples.

I had no doubt they were Southern European, also factoring in sailing distances travelled in that age, a large number of peoples travelling via sea would likely for me be within a few countries distance wise, Anatolia, Greece, Crete, Cyprus or even Sardinia at a push were the prevalent theories I paid most heed to.

"The authors of the Hebrew Bible made it clear that the Philistines were not like them: This "uncircumcised" group is described in several passages as coming from the "Land of Caphtor" (modern-day Crete) before taking control of the coastal region of what is now southern Israel and the Gaza Strip "

This as well, would perfectly believe they were from Crete, in fact I'd say at least one wave of Sea peoples that this would be highly likely and explain all of the above factors.

Basically, yes. Here is how one publication puts it, "links to ancient and modern populations in the eastern Mediterranean,..."

 

[Todd Feinman]

Right, and the flat out admission by Odysseus in the Odyssey had a reason for being there! Ramses III ambushed them at the mouth of the Nile. Arms and armour depictions of some Sea People are the only really obvious depictions of Homeric arms and armour, too.

 

[Wickerman]

Recent events, which cannot be discussed here, would seem to strongly support that the Philistines were the Sea Peoples - or at least a primary force within that group. They apparently came from what is now SE Europe.

Well yes, but the inhabitants of SE Europe, if you are talking about Greeks, colonized much of the eastern Mediterranean in the 2nd millennium including Cilicia.
So how would we define a Cilician warrior with Aegean ancestry from a Greek?

Take for instance the story of Sitting Bull at the Little Big Horn. The Sioux defeated an enemy who spoke English, followed English customs, wore very Victorian influenced style of clothing. Yet, no-one would try suggest that the Sioux defeated the English at Little Big Horn.

The conventional paradigm would have us believe the Greeks, among others, left their homeland and invaded the Levant. Yet nothing has surfaced to substantiate that argument.

 

[Wickerman]

"The authors of the Hebrew Bible made it clear that the Philistines were not like them: This "uncircumcised" group is described in several passages as coming from the "Land of Caphtor" (modern-day Crete) before taking control of the coastal region of what is now southern Israel and the Gaza Strip "

This as well, would perfectly believe they were from Crete, in fact I'd say at least one wave of Sea peoples that this would be highly likely and explain all of the above factors.

Interesting that no-one ever mentions the fact that Crete was known as Gerty in ancient times. While Keftia/Caphtor is associated with the Levantine coast.

 

[Wickerman]

Right, and the flat out admission by Odysseus in the Odyssey had a reason for being there! Ramses III ambushed them at the mouth of the Nile. Arms and armour depictions of some Sea People are the only really obvious depictions of Homeric arms and armour, too.

And how many other warriors across the Aegean used the very same weapons & armor?
Have you noticed the Peleset, the Denyen, the Sheklesh, the Shardana, etc. all use the same weapons?
They can't all be Homeric Greeks now, can they....

 

[Todd Feinman]

And how many other warriors across the Aegean used the very same weapons & armor?
Have you noticed the Peleset, the Denyen, the Sheklesh, the Shardana, etc. all use the same weapons?
They can't all be Homeric Greeks now, can they....

But none of that armour was native to the Delta, and the Homeric warriors are described as wearing it, even if others did too. It is hard to find depics of large round ankle-tapping shields and amphiphalos helmets, even in Aegean art of the time.