Who would you have supported in the Italo-Turkish War?

Who would you have supported in the Italo-Turkish War?

  • Italy

  • The Ottoman Empire


Results are only viewable after voting.

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,807
SoCal
#1
As for me, I would probably support the Italians. I don't have that much sympathy for Italy's conquest of Libya (Libya isn't very useful for living space), but I do like the fact that Italy's defeat of the Ottomans inspired the Balkan states to attack the Ottomans. The First Balkan War resulted in the creation of an independent Albania and thus I can't really complain about a war which resulted in the First Balkan War breaking out.

Also, interestingly enough, I'm not sure that the outcome of this war would have actually mattered. After all, even if the Ottomans would have won, if WWI would have still broken out at the same time that it did in real life, then Italy could have simply conquered Libya during WWI.

BTW, this thread is in the Africa section of this forum because it involves Libya.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,875
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#5
My answer can sound obvious ... I'm Italian and I'm with the Italians.

Anyway there is a reason which is geopolitical: the Turkish Empire was the weak member of Europe [actually in that time they called it the "sick person of Europe"]. A defeat could have helped the Ottomans to understand and to change ... but they didn't change.

Ottomans made a tremendous mistake: they thought that to go back to Islam was suitable to ensure the survival to the Empire ... No ... the main troubles were regional and ethnic ... Egyptians fought real wars against the Ottomans for their independence [and Western colonial powers were there just waiting for that!].

No, no, no ... the "Eternal State" showed to be a "temporary municipality".
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,280
Spain
#6
I agree with you Mr Alpin. But it is incredible (I am learning Turk and reading the Turkish official history in WW1) how Italy defeated easily to the ottoman in Triipolitania and Cirenaica... and how the Ottomans were beated again in First Balkank War (that it is a Turk-Ottoman War consequence) and however... they were so hard against British (Gallipoli, Gaza, Ctesiphon, Kut-el-Amara etc etc), Russians (Erzerum, Bitlis, Trebizond etc) ... it is a evidence italiand just did an excellent campaing against a though enemy....although Ottoman Army in 1914 is not the same than in1911 and 1912.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,875
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#7
I agree with you Mr Alpin. But it is incredible (I am learning Turk and reading the Turkish official history in WW1) how Italy defeated easily to the ottoman in Triipolitania and Cirenaica... and how the Ottomans were beated again in First Balkank War (that it is a Turk-Ottoman War consequence) and however... they were so hard against British (Gallipoli, Gaza, Ctesiphon, Kut-el-Amara etc etc), Russians (Erzerum, Bitlis, Trebizond etc) ... it is a evidence italiand just did an excellent campaing against a though enemy....although Ottoman Army in 1914 is not the same than in1911 and 1912.
You know what ... Ottomans had the resources to keep on being a dominating power, but a little detail tells us something: Italians used the Air Force against the Ottomans [historically it seems they were the first ones, I say "they" since my family was still in Germany ...]. Ottomans had all the resources to develop that military technology ... they didn't. This makes me think that the Ottoman Empire was too focused on internal matters and overall on religious matters. Science is a problem for a religious regime. But at the end bombs are lay!
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,280
Spain
#8
You know what ... Ottomans had the resources to keep on being a dominating power, but a little detail tells us something: Italians used the Air Force against the Ottomans [historically it seems they were the first ones, I say "they" since my family was still in Germany ...]. Ottomans had all the resources to develop that military technology ... they didn't. This makes me think that the Ottoman Empire was too focused on internal matters and overall on religious matters. Science is a problem for a religious regime. But at the end bombs are lay!
Yes, Islam was a problem (and it is ) for science and technological development but the Ottoman Empire also had Christian and Jewish soldiers... about Air Force I think yes.. Italian were the first one in 1911. Ottoman Empire focused on internal matters from 18th Century... but italians won a war that it was not so easy as we can think.... Nor British nor Russians had the same easy success. I think Italo-Turkish was the greatest italian military victory.... Vittorio Venetto was only after lost 500.000 KIA...whilst Tripolitania and Cyrenaica were conquested with only 4.000 KIA.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,875
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#9
Yes, Islam was a problem (and it is ) for science and technological development but the Ottoman Empire also had Christian and Jewish soldiers... about Air Force I think yes.. Italian were the first one in 1911. Ottoman Empire focused on internal matters from 18th Century... but italians won a war that it was not so easy as we can think.... Nor British nor Russians had the same easy success. I think Italo-Turkish was the greatest italian military victory.... Vittorio Venetto was only after lost 500.000 KIA...whilst Tripolitania and Cyrenaica were conquested with only 4.000 KIA.
If we compare the Italian military effort in WWI with the Italian military effort against the Ottomans ... it's clear that the difference was the strategy. I shouldn't underline this since the mausoleum of the Commander of the Italian Army is in my hometown [Cadorna was born here], but it's a matter of fact that the Italian Army used technology to defeat the Ottomans while it followed a traditional strategy to face the Austrians.

In any case yes, the victory against the Ottomans was the greatest Italian military victory.
 
Likes: martin76

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,369
Portugal
#10
If we compare the Italian military effort in WWI with the Italian military effort against the Ottomans ... it's clear that the difference was the strategy. I shouldn't underline this since the mausoleum of the Commander of the Italian Army is in my hometown [Cadorna was born here], but it's a matter of fact that the Italian Army used technology to defeat the Ottomans while it followed a traditional strategy to face the Austrians.

In any case yes, the victory against the Ottomans was the greatest Italian military victory.
This is an interesting conflict. Some years ago I saw online a collection of Italian contemporary postcards portraying the conflict.

Any good online sources for this? If not in English, In the worst case scenario in Italian! :D

For instance, about the Dodecanese I don’t know almost anything about what happened there; with so many Islands the campaign wasn’t surely easy.