Who would you have supported in the Polish-Ukrainian War?

Who would you have supported in the Polish-Ukrainian War?


  • Total voters
    16

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,013
SoCal
#1
After the end of World War I, there was a war between Poland and the West Ukrainian People's Republic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ukrainian_War

In short: Poland wanted to conquer the West Ukrainian People's Republic while the Western Ukrainian People's Republic wanted to protect and preserve its independence. Ultimately Poland won and annexed the West Ukrainian People's Republic, but this settlement wouldn't hold forever. In 1939, the Soviet Union annexed eastern Poland--including the former territory of the West Ukrainian People's Republic--and incorporated it into the Soviet Union. As of right now, the former territory of the West Ukrainian People's Republic is a part of Ukraine.

Anyway, who exactly would you have supported in this war?

As for me, I voted for the Western Ukrainian People's Republic since it had the stronger claim to its territory (this territory was something like 60% Ukrainian, 25% Polish, and 10-15% Jewish, if I remember correctly) and since it was fighting in self-defense--as opposed to the Poles, who wanted to expand into territory where a majority of the population probably didn't want to live under Polish rule. In turn, this is why I consider the fact that the territory of the Western Ukrainian People's Republic is currently a part of Ukraine to be a case of historical justice.

Anyway, any thoughts on this?
 
#5
This division would have been fair (either Barthelemy's line or Botha's line):

https://www.geographiapolonica.pl/article/item/7563.html

Figure 1. The lines (boundaries) dividing Galicia according to the proposals of General Barthelemy and General Botha. Signatures: 1 - The Commission of General Barthelemy of 15 February 1919; 2 - The Commission of General Botha of 9 May 1919. Both proposals had Lviv on the Polish side:



^^^
That division would leave ca. 1,335,366 ethnic Poles outside and ca. 1,032,975 ethnic Ukrainians inside of Polish part of East Galicia:





Sources for this data (in Polish and French):

http://rcin.org.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?lang=en&action=ChangeMetaLangAction&id=20315&change=Zmień

http://rcin.org.pl/Content/4082/WA51_2720_PANS626-r1919_Ludnosc-rzymsko.pdf
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,013
SoCal
#6
This division would have been fair (either Barthelemy's line or Botha's line):

https://www.geographiapolonica.pl/article/item/7563.html

Figure 1. The lines (boundaries) dividing Galicia according to the proposals of General Barthelemy and General Botha. Signatures: 1 - The Commission of General Barthelemy of 15 February 1919; 2 - The Commission of General Botha of 9 May 1919. Both proposals had Lviv on the Polish side:



^^^
That division would leave ca. 1,335,366 ethnic Poles outside and ca. 1,032,975 ethnic Ukrainians inside of Polish part of East Galicia:



Source for this data (in Polish and French): http://rcin.org.pl/Content/4082/WA51_2720_PANS626-r1919_Ludnosc-rzymsko.pdf
Makes sense! :)

Also, Yes, it would be best for Poland to get Lviv/Lwow considering that, AFAIK, it was a Polish-majority city back then.

For what it's worth, the relevant map is on page 10 of the first link in the post above (as in, page 10 of this report: http://rcin.org.pl/igipz/Content/28362/WA51_46563_r2012-t85-no1_G-Polonica-Eberhardt.pdf ).
 
#7
I added one more link because the 2nd map is from "Atlas des problémes territoriaux de la Pologne", but the same numerical data (based on Austrian census of 1910 in Galicia) can be found also in "La Population Catholique Romaine...".

Both sources are in Polish and in French.
 
#8
Makes sense! :)

Also, Yes, it would be best for Poland to get Lviv/Lwow considering that, AFAIK, it was a Polish-majority city back then.

For what it's worth, the relevant map is on page 10 of the first link in the post above (as in, page 10 of this report: http://rcin.org.pl/igipz/Content/28362/WA51_46563_r2012-t85-no1_G-Polonica-Eberhardt.pdf ).
It can be added that most of the Jews in East Galicia spoke Polish as their everyday language (Umgangssprache). Also some of the Greek Catholic population were Polish-speakers rather than Ukrainian-speakers. Usually ethnic maps count only Roman Catholics in Galicia as Poles. But I think that loyalties of the majority of Galician Jews were with Poland (if they had to choose between Poland or Ukraine). I think that it is proven by the results of various pre-1914 elections in Galicia when Jews voted for Polish and Zionist lists, but not for Ukrainian ones.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,013
SoCal
#9
It can be added that most of the Jews in East Galicia spoke Polish as their everyday language (Umgangssprache). Also some of the Greek Catholic population were Polish-speakers rather than Ukrainian-speakers. Usually ethnic maps count only Roman Catholics in Galicia as Poles. But I think that loyalties of the majority of Galician Jews were with Poland (if they had to choose between Poland or Ukraine). I think that it is proven by the results of various pre-1914 elections in Galicia when Jews voted for Polish and Zionist lists, but not for Ukrainian ones.
Very interesting information! :)

Anyway, if you'll include the Jews as Poles, Poland might have gotten something like 35-40% support in eastern Galicia.

Of course, it is worth noting that Poles did not vote as a bloc in the Upper Silesia referendum; rather, a lot of Poles in that referendum voted for Germany. (The same is also true of the Masurians in the referendum in southern East Prussia, though the Masurians--unlike the Silesians--were Protestants.) Thus, it is possible that a sizable fraction of Poles and/or Ukrainians would have voted for the other side in a referendum in eastern Galicia. Still, one can only speculate in regards to this.

Also, for what it's worth, a plebiscite in eastern Galicia might have very well been the best move (assuming that an independent Western Ukrainian state would have actually been viable, that is).
 
#10