Why are Hong Kongers all of a suddenly protesting for democracy when they were never a democracy?

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,261
Lisbon, Portugal
This is not a pro-democracy movement but rather a pro-violence movement, pan-violence movement by my understanding.
There is no such thing (and there never been), a movement that is simply "pro-violence" or "pan-violence". That even doesn't make any sense or logic - violence is a method, not a means to an end.
No group ever in history organized themselves towards the end goal of "achieving violence", even the terms that you used - such a "pan-violence" - were never used seriously towards any movement in modern history.

Of course, such a movement as the ones we are witnessing now is somewhat contradictory in its doctrine, confusing regarding their goals and tactics, and lacking any cohesive message, action or control command, but just labeling them as simply "pan-violence" it's just an attempt to smear the group, rather than providing an objective analysis about it.
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,261
Lisbon, Portugal
I also know pro-democracy American Neo-Nazis posting online, that doesn't make America a Nazi regime.
You seem to have a very distorted view of CCP ideologies. The fact is, not only is the CCP not Han nationalist, it often sees traditional Han culture as a potential threat to its legitimacy. Han nationalist webpages within the PRC which expresses too much sentiments are also shut down by the government. Chinese history textbooks purposely stopped calling traditional Han generals such as Yuefei Han as "national heroes" (as it was done under the ROC) because it was politically incorrect (often leading to complaints from Han nationalists). The cultural revolution, persecution of Falungong as well as other local believes, and attempts at assimilating traditional culture of Hong Kong to the mainland values are great examples that the CCP will persecute Han just as much as any minority if it deems it problematic. The CCP is very pragmatic, and is suspicious of any traditional believe which it deems threatening. This is perhaps why the Falungong considers the CCP a regime with a foreign doctrine hijacking traditional Chinese civilization.
That's actually true what you are saying, since I've experienced second-hand some of the things you are saying.
I knew a Han Chinese graduate student that wrote a very racist message on social media, degrading their fellow Chinese minority classmates, as being lazy and incompetent and criticizing the affirmative action policy in which creates quotas for minority Chinese students. Once the University knew about this message, the said student was expelled from the university...

Other case that I heard is from some Chinese authorities discouraging young people into dressing-up Han "traditional costumes" (汉服 ) in official events and ceremonies, but on the other hand they say nothing about minorities dressing up their own "traditional costumes". Maybe is for the fact that in certain instances, the CCP views some forms of Han "traditional cultural" expression as more dangerous to the status quo than minorities "cultural expressions".
 

heavenlykaghan

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
4,553
That's actually true what you are saying, since I've experienced second-hand some of the things you are saying.
I knew a Han Chinese graduate student that wrote a very racist message on social media, degrading their fellow Chinese minority classmates, as being lazy and incompetent and criticizing the affirmative action policy in which creates quotas for minority Chinese students. Once the University knew about this message, the said student was expelled from the university...

Other case that I heard is from some Chinese authorities discouraging young people into dressing-up Han "traditional costumes" (汉服 ) in official events and ceremonies, but on the other hand they say nothing about minorities dressing up their own "traditional costumes". Maybe is for the fact that in certain instances, the CCP views some forms of Han "traditional cultural" expression as more dangerous to the status quo than minorities "cultural expressions".
The founding ideology of all communist regimes is to destroy tradition, the recent tolerance of traditional culture does not imply that the communist regimes are going facist and promoting traditions. The fundamental doctrine of the CCP is still communist (at least the Chinese version), and the recent policies by Xi is seeing a return to some of the older ideologies.
Despite what some people think, the authoritarian nature of the CCP regime actually protects the minorities from the majority in many ways that democracies cannot. The persecution of minorities in many democracies often have majority support and the government often have to yield to the racist majority in ways that cannot protect minority rights. An organization like the KKK would not see the light of day in China. The same applies to foreigners. In places like Japan, you have clubs with signs such as "foreigners are not allowed", and if you report to the cops, they will just come and say "you've read the sign, no foreigners allowed", whereas in China, if you put such a sign up in public, the cops will tell you to take the sign down or get busted because its disrupting harmony. A Chinese racist can make racist comments on black people all day long, but they would never have the balls to take actions against them, and if they do, they will soon find out that they the government is not on their side whatsoever because they are again disrupting harmony (and perhaps worse as they are disrupting Chinese interests in establishing friendly relationship with African countries).
 
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May 2017
124
Hong Kong
There is no such thing (and there never been), a movement that is simply "pro-violence" or "pan-violence". That even doesn't make any sense or logic - violence is a method, not a means to an end.
No group ever in history organized themselves towards the end goal of "achieving violence", even the terms that you used - such a "pan-violence" - were never used seriously towards any movement in modern history.

Of course, such a movement as the ones we are witnessing now is somewhat contradictory in its doctrine, confusing regarding their goals and tactics, and lacking any cohesive message, action or control command, but just labeling them as simply "pan-violence" it's just an attempt to smear the group, rather than providing an objective analysis about it.
I confess that the terms "Pro-violence' and "Pan-violence" movements are my invention. Since I observe that many so called pro-democracy activities here in Hong Kong are not meant for that goal but merely to declare something vague like " To shop with you" , "To dine with you" etc. As protestors gathered for a duration of comparative peace violent confrontation with the police usually appeared at the end to throw gas bombs , to throw bricks ,to stack up barricades ,to burn wooden crates, to dismantle traffic lamps, to vandalize shops and restaurants, to beat people they don't like. The aim is to harass the people and business of HK such that people would be afraid of them and tend to be submissive to them and become silence to what they do. This phenomena happens everywhere from time to time for months. Therefore I call this "pro-violence" and "pan-violence" movement.

During Russo-Japanese war of 1904, Akashi Motojiro of Japan arranged a "pro-violence" "pan-violence" movement inside Russia such that at least 50,000 soldiers were withheld from sending to the battlefield in the Far East in my opinion as an example.