Why are last names of the Jewish people made of German words?

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,970
Dispargum
Yiddish was born originally a a neo Romance language. Askhenazi Jews are population genetically speaking half- Romans from Italy. Later they moved to the land of Franks than to Germans, their language and vocablary switched from neo-Latin to a rather Germanic language.

There are many evil false sterotypes about Jewish anthropological look since the emergence of anti-semitism (and especially nazis in Germany), but to tell the truth, If I want to depict Early Roman Empire or the Republican era Roman soldiers, I would choose Askhenazi Jewish actors to play the Romans, not only because of their very similar Roman-like genetics, but their shocking similar facial features to ancient Romans.
If you leave out the genetics entirely, you say pretty much the same thing. "Askhenazi Jews are population half- Romans from Italy" and "I would choose Askhenazi Jewish actors to play the Romans because of their shocking similar facial features to ancient Romans."

Can you prove either statement without genetics or DNA evidence? If not, you might be better off saying nothing at all.
 
Jan 2020
130
cumberstone
If you leave out the genetics entirely, you say pretty much the same thing. "Askhenazi Jews are population half- Romans from Italy" and "I would choose Askhenazi Jewish actors to play the Romans because of their shocking similar facial features to ancient Romans."

Can you prove either statement without genetics or DNA evidence? If not, you might be better off saying nothing at all.
Ok Genetics is not allowed but lingustics is.

See the origin section:
 
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AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,576
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Ok Genetics is not allowed but lingustics is.

See the origin section:
I see a historical matter to debate here: Yiddish reached Northern Italy well later ... coming from North. Jews are in this peninsula since the time of the Roman Republic. Yiddish language didn't come from Italy, it reached Northern Italy in Medieval time from German lands.
 
Jan 2020
130
cumberstone
I see a historical matter to debate here: Yiddish reached Northern Italy well later ... coming from North. Jews are in this peninsula since the time of the Roman Republic. Yiddish language didn't come from Italy, it reached Northern Italy in Medieval time from German lands.
A judeo Romance language transformed into a Germanic language by time. The most ancient version was the Zarpathic language Zarphatic language - Wikipedia

It was originally spoken by Jews when they migrated towards Germany.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,426
Portugal
A judeo Romance language transformed into a Germanic language by time. The most ancient version was the Zarpathic language Zarphatic language - Wikipedia

It was originally spoken by Jews when they migrated towards Germany.
According to the link provided, it is a conjecture: “Some have conjectured that the language was the original language of the Jews who eventually adopted Old High German, which led to the development of Yiddish.[citation needed]”

That “some” in the quote really needs a citation.

The French entry states:

“On a également pu conjecturer, sur la base de mots comme benschen au lieu de segnen (« bénir »), que le sarphatique était la langue originelle de ceux des juifs qui, adoptant le moyen haut allemand en Europe, donneront naissance au yiddish. Cependant il peut aussi s'agir d'emprunts, et un autre mot yiddish d'origine romane comme lajnen (« lire ») n'est pas de type français.”

Google translation:

“It has also been possible to conjecture, on the basis of words like benschen instead of segnen (“to bless ”), that sarphatic was the original language of those of the Jews who, adopting the medium high German in Europe, will give birth to Yiddish. However, it can also be loans, and another Yiddish word of Romance origin like lajnen (“to read”) is not of French type.”*

Also no source for this is provided in the French Wikipedia.
 
Jan 2020
130
cumberstone
According to the link provided, it is a conjecture: “Some have conjectured that the language was the original language of the Jews who eventually adopted Old High German, which led to the development of Yiddish.[citation needed]”

That “some” in the quote really needs a citation.

The French entry states:

“On a également pu conjecturer, sur la base de mots comme benschen au lieu de segnen (« bénir »), que le sarphatique était la langue originelle de ceux des juifs qui, adoptant le moyen haut allemand en Europe, donneront naissance au yiddish. Cependant il peut aussi s'agir d'emprunts, et un autre mot yiddish d'origine romane comme lajnen (« lire ») n'est pas de type français.”

Google translation:

“It has also been possible to conjecture, on the basis of words like benschen instead of segnen (“to bless ”), that sarphatic was the original language of those of the Jews who, adopting the medium high German in Europe, will give birth to Yiddish. However, it can also be loans, and another Yiddish word of Romance origin like lajnen (“to read”) is not of French type.”*

Also no source for this is provided in the French Wikipedia.
That's why I said, read the Zarphatic and Shuadit language articles. These preceded the German- Yiddish.
 
Jul 2019
1,048
New Jersey
A judeo Romance language transformed into a Germanic language by time. The most ancient version was the Zarpathic language Zarphatic language - Wikipedia

It was originally spoken by Jews when they migrated towards Germany.
The "Zarphatic" language (Rashi refers to it as La'az) is simply a Jewish variant of old French. If you actually look at the words Rashi brings down from La'az, you will see that they are virtually all based on French forms. Latin per se had nothing to do with the language.
 
Jan 2020
130
cumberstone
The "Zarphatic" language (Rashi refers to it as La'az) is simply a Jewish variant of old French. If you actually look at the words Rashi brings down from La'az, you will see that they are virtually all based on French forms. Latin per se had nothing to do with the language.
Exactly.Zarphatic was similarly Jewish like the Yiddish.
 
Jul 2019
1,048
New Jersey
Exactly.Zarphatic was similarly Jewish like the Yiddish.
But very different, linguistically. Being familiar with both of them (intimately in the case of Yiddish, lightly in the case of Judeo-French, I find it extremely hard to believe that Zarphatic is in any way an ancestor of Yiddish.
 
Jan 2020
130
cumberstone
But very different, linguistically. Being familiar with both of them (intimately in the case of Yiddish, lightly in the case of Judeo-French, I find it extremely hard to believe that Zarphatic is in any way an ancestor of Yiddish.
Not direct ancestor, but somehow predecessor, because Ashkenazi Jews moved from France to Germany than later to Poland.