Why are the Italians so underrated?

Feb 2018
114
EU-Germany
#51
National concept was born after the Roman Empire collapse, this applies to all nationalities.

However the first to define themself italiotes were the Greeks
also the socii defined themselves as "italians" during the social-war in opposition to rome and romans, changed the name of their capital from corfinium to italia and in own coinage ITALIA not ROMA on obverse, but after the war they became romans; tuff luck

the concept of an ITALIA was created by augustus but after the fall of the empire it was only a philosophical or geographical concept until the 19th century;
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,138
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#53
476



The concept of Italy was ancient that Augustus, with Augustus this concept reached the Alps.
Yes ... I would live in Gaul without that extension ... and waking up in the morning I would think "I'm a Gaul" ... Cisalpine ...

Anyway, I thought it was already Caesar to incorporate this region into "Italy".
 
Jan 2012
378
French Kingdom
#54
Italy has one of the most formidable history, culture and society of Europe, copied in many places but rarely with the same artistic quality. The Roman Empire remains the ultimate example of intelligent management of a huge territory including many different cultures, that actually didn't suddenly collapse but rather gradually changed : after all the Byzantine empire did more than simply survive as it lasted 1000 additional years. The inhabitants of that empire never ceased to call themselves "romans".

Not being a military superpower after achieving this is certainly not an embarassment : Italy did much more for the living than for the deads, so you can be proud of this...
 
Nov 2018
23
Montenegro
#55
476

The concept of Italy was ancient that Augustus, with Augustus this concept reached the Alps.
Eastern Roman Empire lived for thousad years more. With Emperor Justinian I (Justinianus Favius Ioannus Avgust) the Rome was again a integral part of the Empire. Because of limitations of technology, and was multidues of peoples who spoke diffrent languages. It was impossible to control those regions. Plus, the constant wars have emptied the Imperial tresury, no soldier wants to fight for free.
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,180
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#56
Eastern Roman Empire lived for thousad years more. With Emperor Justinian I (Justinianus Favius Ioannus Avgust) the Rome was again a integral part of the Empire. Because of limitations of technology, and was multidues of peoples who spoke diffrent languages. It was impossible to control those regions. Plus, the constant wars have emptied the Imperial tresury, no soldier wants to fight for free.
Sure, but in this context it doesn't matter much.
 
Nov 2018
23
Montenegro
#57
Italian states were some of the most prosperous. Because every state minted its own coins, there was a need to exchange coins, thus precuros for banking system was invented.
Region was also quite peaceful, nobles competed building massive libraries they copied ancent manuscripst. With fall of the Constantinopolis, the mass migration of scholars to free states. Allowed
technology to blossom. Scholars had so much matterial to go throw. If one state repressed the people with ideas, there rivals would offer larges sums of money for those scholars to arive at there court.
In middleages pagans and outsiders had very good navy, merchant republics invested in this technology but in renesance scholars and shipbuilders were introduced to Arab and Greek battleship plans.
Mixing the best of from all, It allowed Europeans to travel beyond the shores of northern Africa and Europe. To explore and discover. This is facinating to me. Italian states were very importan factor in history of Europe no doubt.
 
Apr 2017
75
Cologne
#58
Almost every culture has had an empire and a high point. The Italians had it in the ancient Roman Empire. Even without being unified for another 1200 years, the Italians were still formidable and were absolutely untouchable because of the Pope. So why does 1 war where they got invaded by the worlds largest empire ever make them a military embarrassment?
A few days ago I told a Colognian librarian (in a conversation we had about history) about your post and she started giggling and laughing in unbelief for 5 minutes as I quoted : Only one war...
Any professional guess why people from the Roman Empire border zone, who are first hand witnesses of 2000 years Italian warfare might have that reaction if you say: Just that one...?

I mean I am lucky that you said empire – as I otherwise I would have had no clue what war you were referring to, too.

Sorry... That could have been Alesia... 50 BC – are that funny fellow Varus... and then this next dude Germanicus... Trust me – if tomorrow some Italians gather around a marble Mattarella statue and go: We have to run to Westphalia because the Hungarians are on the move – there is zero doubt over here – that if we now do not pick up arms the Pannonian Steppe will end at the Atlantic.
The only reason why we do not fly then like Prussians is because we consider the option, if that could not be an advantage, but that this is going to happen if we sit it out, is written for us.

The only thing what I do not understand why others mocking you with that, because to 90% we wiped the floor with them or does the Pannonian Steppe end at the Atlantic?
I could say welcome – but somehow did the Vandals made it around the Alps – and we know very well where they did not pass... but do not need a historical degree to know how they made it.
Like that Hannibal – we know exactly over here how he made it into the country.
Alpin Luke nailed it. Yeah. That is what we tell you here since the bronze-age.
Don't mind. If it really matters we got your back to ca. 70- to 80%. And that is by our standards a 90.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
4,292
Netherlands
#59
A few days ago I told a Colognian librarian (in a conversation we had about history) about your post and she started giggling and laughing in unbelief for 5 minutes as I quoted : Only one war...
Any professional guess why people from the Roman Empire border zone, who are first hand witnesses of 2000 years Italian warfare might have that reaction if you say: Just that one...?
Not many countries served as a military playground in such a good way over such a long period. From Vandals and Byzantines to Charles V to the Americans and Germans.
 
Jan 2017
37
Italy, EU
#60
Rome has been the greatest Italian power in terms of military but Venice comes second and it is not much discussed in this thread. Venetian victories include the Battle of Costantinople in 1204 over the Byzantines, the Battle of Motta over the HRE, the battle of Lepanto in 1571 and the capture of Morea. Its empire resisted more than expected to Ottoman expansion though it was slowly annexed, and ultimately fell when it was incorporated into Austria.