Why Brazil could not become super power like US?

SSDD

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Aug 2014
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India
Why Brazil could not become super power like US? After having independence from Portugal in 1820. Brazil had large population, large country, huge natural resource, still it could not become a super power like US. Why?

Mean while US was very little in 1783, but US expanded to West, and become super power and played critical role in WW1 and WW2, from WW2 US is Super Power, Brazil could not become despite having all.

Why?
 
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Tairusiano

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Jun 2012
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In the 19th century Brazil was a power, militarily was very powerful.
possessed one of the largest navies in the world and possessed its own Monroe Doctrine(American naval vessels USS Maine and USS Texas were built to try to cope with the battleships of Brazil in these times), but the great problem of Brazil is that there was no industrial modernization economy depended almost entirely on the export of sugar, meat and at the end of the century coffee and rubber.
with the proclamation of the republic the country was weakened even more now controlled by state oligarchies, who thought only in profit, can be said that the country went through a "small dark ages" add to this that the Argentine economy was more competitive and surpassed the economy of Brazil, industrialization in Brazil would arise only in periods of WW1, most important after the crisis of 29 and with Getúlio Vargas government .
 
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Jun 2014
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In the 19th century Brazil was a power, militarily was very powerful.
possessed one of the largest navies in the world and possessed its own Monroe Doctrine(American naval vessels USS Maine and USS Texas were built to try to cope with the battleships of Brazil in these times), but the great problem of Brazil is that there was no industrial modernization economy depended almost entirely on the export of sugar, meat and at the end of the century coffee and rubber.
with the proclamation of the republic the country was weakened even more now controlled by state oligarchies, who thought only in profit, can be said that the country went through a "small dark ages" add to this that the Argentine economy was more competitive and surpassed the economy of Brazil, industrialization in Brazil would arise only in periods of WW1, most important after the crisis of 29 and with Getúlio Vargas government .
Brazil at end of 19th century had an economy many times smaller than USA so the whole question is wrong. As per Angus Maddison, GDP in PPP terms of entire Latin America was 27000 million dollars which was equal to that of Japan, so Brazil was never in the race to beat Japan leave alone USA.
 
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Tairusiano

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Jun 2012
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Brazil
Brazil at end of 19th century had an economy many times smaller than USA so the whole question is wrong. As per Angus Maddison, GDP in PPP terms of entire Latin America was 27000 million dollars which was equal to that of Japan, so Brazil was never in the race to beat Japan leave alone USA.
I never said that Brazil was the most rich, I said it was a military power and I pointed out the economic weaknesses of Brazil.
there is quote from Chairman of the House Naval Affairs Committee, Congressman Hilary A. Herbert
"if all this old navy of ours were drawn up in battle array in mid-ocean and confronted by the Riachuelo(Brazilian Flagship) it is doubtful whether a single vessel bearing the American flag would get into port."
from the book American Battleships 1896–1923: Predreadnought Design and Construction. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press. ISBN 978-0-87021-524-7.

In his book Illustrated Directory of Warships of the World Miller says that in 1883 Brazilian navy was the most powerful in the American continent.
 
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I never said that Brazil was the most rich, I said it was a military power and I pointed out the economic weaknesses of Brazil.
there is quote from Chairman of the House Naval Affairs Committee, Congressman Hilary A. Herbert
from the book American Battleships 1896–1923: Predreadnought Design and Construction. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press. ISBN 978-0-87021-524-7.

In his book Illustrated Directory of Warships of the World Miller says that in 1883 Brazilian navy was the most powerful in the American continent.
We do know that US became superpower due to its economy being largest which meant it could have made much efficient army, my point was that since Brazilian economy was smaller than Japan, it was not in race to beat US at all. Navy of Japan is largest in Asia but most Asian nations think that Asian superpower is China due to its larger economy, that is the point I am making.
Also, most of Brazilians had little tradition of complex civilization like Americans had so that should also be counted. If native americans were as much there in US as natives are in Brazil, per capita of US would not have been that much. In case you find this as racist, do understand what I am saying. A people who had complex traditions of trade and industry would be much more adapted to industrialization than one who do not have that.In new world, there is direct correlation between nations with large number of Europeans and wealth which is due to their history .
 

Tairusiano

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
2,975
Brazil
We do know that US became superpower due to its economy being largest which meant it could have made much efficient army, my point was that since Brazilian economy was smaller than Japan, it was not in race to beat US at all. Navy of Japan is largest in Asia but most Asian nations think that Asian superpower is China due to its larger economy, that is the point I am making.
Also, most of Brazilians had little tradition of complex civilization like Americans had so that should also be counted. If native americans were as much there in US as natives are in Brazil, per capita of US would not have been that much. In case you find this as racist, do understand what I am saying. A people who had complex traditions of trade and industry would be much more adapted to industrialization than one who do not have that.In new world, there is direct correlation between nations with large number of Europeans and wealth which is due to their history .
But still was a power in the 19th century, enough to make USA start a military buildup
In case you find this as racist, do understand what I am saying. A people who had complex traditions of trade and industry would be much more adapted to industrialization than one who do not have that.In new world, there is direct correlation between nations with large number of Europeans
with all respect this make no sence, dont bring racial debate to the american history forum
but only to debunk his theory.
brazil have 896,9 mil natives
ftp://ftp.ibge.gov.br/Censos/Censo_Demografico_2010/Caracteristicas_Gerais_dos_Indigenas/pdf/Publicacao_completa.pdf
and USA 2,932,248
http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf
 
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SSDD

Ad Honorem
Aug 2014
3,900
India
Also I was amazed to see that how many rebellions happened in Brazil. Surely these revolts eradicated Brazil strength very much.

Thanks for replies.
 

Ancientgeezer

Ad Honorem
Nov 2011
8,894
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
Also, most of Brazilians had little tradition of complex civilization like Americans had so that should also be counted. If native americans were as much there in US as natives are in Brazil, per capita of US would not have been that much. In case you find this as racist, do understand what I am saying. A people who had complex traditions of trade and industry would be much more adapted to industrialization than one who do not have that.In new world, there is direct correlation between nations with large number of Europeans and wealth which is due to their history .
I think that you can re-phrase this by comparing the size and the political power of a country's middle class. The classic empires of India, China the Ottomans and right through to the Spanish Empire all had great wealth and power concentrated in the aristocracy/ruling class with the bulk of the population powerless peasants--they all ossified and declined. Britain's growth as a nation (and to a lesser extent the Dutch) can be matched to the growth of the middle-class after the Reformation that became dominant after the English civil war. A class that funded trade and exploration while the Spanish model was State (royal) enterprise.
The British model became the American model which refined it even more so there was effectively ONLY a middle class.
Meanwhile in Brazil, as with Spanish America, the old vice-royalty type of system with a powerful elite, a huge mass of peasants (slaves in Brazil) and a tiny middle class, kept the wealth in the hands of the few in a way that strangled the runaway growth of North America. Those that rose up against the system were supressed instead of being given opportunities to get wealthy themselves.
 
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Jun 2014
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I think that you can re-phrase this by comparing the size and the political power of a country's middle class. The classic empires of India, China the Ottomans and right through to the Spanish Empire all had great wealth and power concentrated in the aristocracy/ruling class with the bulk of the population powerless peasants--they all ossified and declined. Britain's growth as a nation (and to a lesser extent the Dutch) can be matched to the growth of the middle-class after the Reformation that became dominant after the English civil war. A class that funded trade and exploration while the Spanish model was State (royal) enterprise.
The British model became the American model which refined it even more so there was effectively ONLY a middle class.
Meanwhile in Brazil, as with Spanish America, the old vice-royalty type of system with a powerful elite, a huge mass of peasants (slaves in Brazil) and a tiny middle class, kept the wealth in the hands of the few in a way that strangled the runaway growth of North America. Those that rose up against the system were supressed instead of being given opportunities to get wealthy themselves.
I agree but then Argentina and Spain should have been as much rich or poor as Brazil and Colombia, both had same models of an aristocratic class exploiting peasants but we do have difference in level of economic development which needs to be explained and here my model which is borrowed from Ian Morris succeeds in doing this.
 

royal744

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Jul 2013
10,631
San Antonio, Tx
But still was a power in the 19th century, enough to make USA start a military buildup
The US never built warships to counter the Brazian navy. It built warships prior to WWI to compete with the British, French, Italian and German navies. Brazil did not in my opinion, even figure into the equation.