Why can't the East Asian countries learn from Europe?

Aug 2009
5,340
Londinium
#31
USSR/Russia had been the official bogeyman since WWII though.
Sure, but the US influence/presences since WW2 has not caused Europeans to no longer be wary of Germany, because Europeans are still wary of Germany.

From 1945 onward, there was no military threat from any European power against western Europe/US, aside from Russia/USSR. With that said, all Europeans have been wary of Germany since unification (19th Century unification that is).

EDIT, Bolsheviks were the bogey man of Europe long before WW2!
 
Jul 2012
3,196
Dhaka
#32
Sure, but the US influence/presences since WW2 has not caused Europeans to no longer be wary of Germany, because Europeans are still wary of Germany.

From 1945 onward, there was no military threat from any European power against western Europe/US, aside from Russia/USSR. With that said, all Europeans have been wary of Germany since unification (19th Century unification that is).

EDIT, Bolsheviks were the bogey man of Europe long before WW2!
Europeans present a united front (which includes Germany) powered by the US, against the Russians, as was the premise of the OP. Context.

Edit: If Europeans are still wary of Germany, the premise of the OP is false, and you should address that.
 
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Apr 2015
334
Texas
#33
Re; East Sea vs Sea of Japan.

There are some instances where countries call their shared geographical points differently.

The US and Mexico call their common river "Rio Grande" and Rio Bravo" respectively.

But their shared Gulf is always called Gulf of Mexico by all.
 
Apr 2018
979
Upland, Sweden
#34
The situations are quite different. Because there has never been an obvious hegemon for very long in European history (still true today), we have a long history of the great powers acting as more or less equals towards one another, even if the Westphalian ideal has often been just that, an ideal. I am no expert on East Asian history, but it always seems as if China has considered itself deserving of tribute or at least recogition as a important centre of culture (calling itself zhong guo and all seems to indicate a rather sizeable historical ego). Contrast this historical dominance with the much earlier economic success of especially Japan and even Korea, and it is not strange the Chinese want "their place in the sun", and the Koreans and Japanese being apprehensive of what this will entail.

The Asian situation is also complicated by the fact that the last war's "good guys" (China, Korea) can now arguably be portrayed as "bad guys": China is an oligarchy/ dictatorship that went through a history of brutality at the hands of Mao almost as brutal as the Japanese occupation. North Korea is... what it is. Most importantly though I think, because of the very clearly ideological nature of german national socialism it just seems a lot better suited as a "bogey-man" than the much more vague and not nearly as iconic Japanese "militarism".

This is I think the most important fact. For a long time a very popular opinion has been that "Nazism" (or "nationalism", "right-wing extremism" perhaps someone more to the left would say) is the true enemy, not the Germans per se; this is of course also helped by Europe arguably having a more clearly defined intellectual/ philosophical sense of commonality among its countries, and an idea that we are all "europeans" - no doubt related to the fact that no single power has completely dominated the continent since the fall of the Roman Empire. Therefore we Europeans often consider ourselves to all share (even if only a little) in the guilt of the crimes of Hitler etc. , even if we are neutral countries like the Swedes, or occupied like the Dutch, or the French. This is of course aided, as perverse as it sounds, by the Holocaust - the killing of Europe's Jews and the (deserved, mostly) status they have occupied as the "apex-victims" of the Second World War in the minds of many means that no one European country can claim to be the main victim...

Anyway, the pre-requisites for this kind of self-image and conception of the war do not seem to exist in East Asia.
 
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Aug 2009
5,340
Londinium
#35
Europeans present a united front (which includes Germany) powered by the US, against the Russians, as was the premise of the OP. Context.

Edit: If Europeans are still wary of Germany, the premise of the OP is false, and you should address that.
No need to look for ways out of our conversation, which is entirely self-contained in our exchanges. It was only a relevantly minor correction I was making anyway, and these points stand :)
 
Sep 2018
37
America
#37
Are really Western countries so unstable and poverty so ripe because of immigration? Are Western countries really worse when it comes to complete lack of fiscal responsibility or accountability when compared to countries such as South Korea, China and Japan?
Um....Yes. Less so about immigration, more so about the fiscal irresponsibility. When a Chinese CEO "Loses" a few billion dollars, he gets executed. When and American CEO does it, the government gives him a few more billion dollars.
 
Apr 2018
979
Upland, Sweden
#38
Um....Yes. Less so about immigration, more so about the fiscal irresponsibility. When a Chinese CEO "Loses" a few billion dollars, he gets executed. When and American CEO does it, the government gives him a few more billion dollars.
I think you're selling the West a bit short. We have a much more open discourse about these things, I think covering up unpleasant facts is a lot easier in China, especially if you're friends with the leaders of the CCP.
 
Oct 2012
610
#39
Um....Yes. Less so about immigration, more so about the fiscal irresponsibility. When a Chinese CEO "Loses" a few billion dollars, he gets executed. When and American CEO does it, the government gives him a few more billion dollars.
I am not so sure if executions are really the way to stable society and economic growth.
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,990
Lisbon, Portugal
#40
Um....Yes. Less so about immigration, more so about the fiscal irresponsibility. When a Chinese CEO "Loses" a few billion dollars, he gets executed. When and American CEO does it, the government gives him a few more billion dollars.
That's rather anecdotal evidence than anything. China only sporadically executes CEOs. The entire Chinese system suffers more corruption and the their top echelons exhibit less obedience to rule of law than the average Western countries. Japan and specially South Korea has major problems with large-scale corruption.
 

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