Why can't the East Asian countries learn from Europe?

Feb 2016
539
ROK
#41
I had a conversation with a couple of people from outside Asia. They were shocked that the South Koreans and Japanese could travel to each other's countries without a visa. And the South Koreans can visit Russia without a visa, too. And many South Koreans and Chinese visit each other's countries. A South Korean can order a Chinese tourist visa at a cheaper price than a US citizen can. And many Chinese travel to Japan. I saw Chinese tourists there two months ago. I live in South Korea. I went to Japan 7 times and China 6 times (8 when including Hong Kong). I never had any problem when being in either of these countries.

The tensions are mainly in the diplomatic level.

Btw, hooliganism is very rare in Asia. I never saw it happen when Korea played against another Asian team. Actually, I've never seen any case of it when Korea played any country, which feels good to know that South Korea isn't hated much. I've seen one case of hooliganism by the Chinese fans against the Japanese, but that was many years ago, and it was pretty tame when compared to what happened in the EURO 2016 and the 1998 World Cup. None of the Japanese got hurt as far as I know.

I've been in Asia, North America, and Europe. The Far East isn't as dangerous as the Western media depicts it to be.
 
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May 2017
119
Monterrey
#42
That's rather anecdotal evidence than anything. China only sporadically executes CEOs. The entire Chinese system suffers more corruption and the their top echelons exhibit less obedience to rule of law than the average Western countries. Japan and specially South Korea has major problems with large-scale corruption.
Corruption in the West is of different kind. In developed countries, you tend to have these "old boys networks".
 

Fox

Ad Honorem
Oct 2011
3,864
Korea
#43
What exactly does East Asia have to learn from Europe in the modern context?
Putting aside the fact that there surely are some individual areas in which European norms or practices hold positive lessons upon which East Asian countries could draw -- to put forward a single example, representatives from my provincial office of education not too long ago visited Finland to observe and learn from their educational practices -- it is worth remembering that one can learn from the mistakes of others just as well as one can learn from the successes of others. You mention immigration in a seemingly sarcastic way, for example, but South Koreans have very much learned from Europe and America with regards to immigration, and with regards to refugee and asylum policy in particular. Specifically, they've learned that European and American policies with regards to that topic produce results which would not be welcome here, and accordingly, learned to resist western pro-migration rhetoric and exercise caution. South Korea will do the absolute minimum required to avoid sending people to their deaths, but that is all. The exception, of course, is North Korean refugees, who have a legitimate reason to claim refugee status in South Korea specifically, but somehow accepting them in great numbers doesn't convince the rest of the world that Korea is "doing its part," which is in itself another lesson.

In short, there are definitely things for East Asian countries to learn from European civilization, both through an examination of its merits and an examination of its errors. European civilization could also find lessons in modern East Asia, of course, but whether they want to learn from those potential lessons is up to them.
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,903
Lisbon, Portugal
#44
Putting aside the fact that there surely are some individual areas in which European norms or practices hold positive lessons upon which East Asian countries could draw -- to put forward a single example, representatives from my provincial office of education not too long ago visited Finland to observe and learn from their educational practices -- it is worth remembering that one can learn from the mistakes of others just as well as one can learn from the successes of others. You mention immigration in a seemingly sarcastic way, for example, but South Koreans have very much learned from Europe and America with regards to immigration, and with regards to refugee and asylum policy in particular. Specifically, they've learned that European and American policies with regards to that topic produce results which would not be welcome here, and accordingly, learned to resist western pro-migration rhetoric and exercise caution. South Korea will do the absolute minimum required to avoid sending people to their deaths, but that is all. The exception, of course, is North Korean refugees, who have a legitimate reason to claim refugee status in South Korea specifically, but somehow accepting them in great numbers doesn't convince the rest of the world that Korea is "doing its part," which is in itself another lesson.

In short, there are definitely things for East Asian countries to learn from European civilization, both through an examination of its merits and an examination of its errors. European civilization could also find lessons in modern East Asia, of course, but whether they want to learn from those potential lessons is up to them.
I think Singapore did put up major reforms to its education system, many of those influenced by the education systems of Denmark and Finland. As I can tell, those reforms are doing pretty well, and Singaporean students are facing less psychological stress and turning to be more creative minded.
Singapore is also a different case than other developed East Asian countries: They are not inward thinking like South Koreans and Japanese - they are very internationally and outward oriented; very supportive of multiculturalism (its East Asian authoritarian variety, not western liberal variety) and their economy is totally relied on international commerce.
 
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Fox

Ad Honorem
Oct 2011
3,864
Korea
#45
Singapore is also a different case than other developed East Asian countries: They are not inward thinking like South Koreans and Japanese - they are very internationally and outward oriented; very supportive of multiculturalism (its East Asian authoritarian variety, not western liberal variety) and their economy is totally relied on international commerce.
Korea is also more supportive of "multiculturalism" than many people might realize. Very near my home, for example, we have a 다문화가족센터 (multicultural family center) which provides services to help with assimilation. We also have a variety of policies which are intended towards that end. Again, though, its "multiculturalism" policy is one crafted with lessons learned from the West in mind: a "multiculturalism" which acknowledges the presence of residents and citizens who are not culturally Korean, and seeks to draw them into the culture and society, in order to prevent division and preserve civic unity. There is also an increasing focus in our schools on creative development; our entire first grade of middle school this year has a focus on elective activities, creative production, personal goal formation, and utilizes teacher assessment rather than formal testing.
 
Mar 2013
2,664
the Nile to the Euphrates
#46
I think Singapore did put up major reforms to its education system, many of those influenced by the education systems of Denmark and Finland. As I can tell, those reforms are doing pretty well, and Singaporean students are facing less psychological stress and turning to be more creative minded.
Singapore is also a different case than other developed East Asian countries: They are not inward thinking like South Koreans and Japanese - they are very internationally and outward oriented; very supportive of multiculturalism (its East Asian authoritarian variety, not western liberal variety) and their economy is totally relied on international commerce.
From my personal experience I can say that Taiwanese and Honkongnese people are also very open and westernized. I would say that they are like Europeans, except the fact they look Asian.
 
Jun 2017
2,555
Connecticut
#48
Many in China, Korea and Japan still resent each other due to strong history of war and bloodshed. Kind of like the many European powers. Yet they have learned to work with each other. Why not follow the Europeans lead and wash away centuries of antagonism.
The Europeans were kind of forced to do this because by the end of WWII no continental power had the capacity to wage conflict anymore and the USA and USSR reigned supreme. By the time the Cold War ended the EEC was firmly in place making such conflict near impossible. But before that ever since the Thirty Years War there had been a major war every twenty years or so with the slight gap of the early 19th century. It took a very long time and the Europeans to demographically obliterate themselves(France before this generational warfare was on pace to have a population larger than the USA, by the end the French demographically were shrinking) for this to reverse.

MAD and the fact these nations are separated by water make for very different circumstances. Most people alive in the region don't know war and aren't tired of it. They also haven't been robbed of the capacity to wage war.
 
May 2017
119
Monterrey
#49
The Europeans were kind of forced to do this because by the end of WWII no continental power had the capacity to wage conflict anymore and the USA and USSR reigned supreme. By the time the Cold War ended the EEC was firmly in place making such conflict near impossible. But before that ever since the Thirty Years War there had been a major war every twenty years or so with the slight gap of the early 19th century. It took a very long time and the Europeans to demographically obliterate themselves(France before this generational warfare was on pace to have a population larger than the USA, by the end the French demographically were shrinking) for this to reverse.

MAD and the fact these nations are separated by water make for very different circumstances. Most people alive in the region don't know war and aren't tired of it. They also haven't been robbed of the capacity to wage war.
Just to touch on the demographics; USA saw such a massive influx of immigrants because Europe was at its maximum capacity already. The demographics were already changing due to natural development as well. This seems quite uniform across most of Europe, the last big population booms happening right after WW2. Same changes seem to have happened in USA as well for that matter.
 

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