Why did Germany wait until 1914 to conclude an alliance with the Ottoman Empire?

Lord Oda Nobunaga

Ad Honorem
Jan 2015
5,712
Ontario, Canada
Turkey was way too weak to commit. Also they had issues with Austria-Hungary and Italy, which were German allies. Both Bulgaria and Turkey joined the Central Powers, given that they were also targets in the Balkan Wars which fought against each other. At the end of the day they were cornered and needed a way out of a bad spot. But the Allies picked Russia, so the only other choice was Germany.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
24,626
SoCal
Turkey was way too weak to commit. Also they had issues with Austria-Hungary and Italy, which were German allies. Both Bulgaria and Turkey joined the Central Powers, given that they were also targets in the Balkan Wars which fought against each other. At the end of the day they were cornered and needed a way out of a bad spot. But the Allies picked Russia, so the only other choice was Germany.
What disputes did the Ottomans and A-H have after 1908?
 

Lord Oda Nobunaga

Ad Honorem
Jan 2015
5,712
Ontario, Canada
What disputes did the Ottomans and A-H have after 1908?
Not many issues as far as I'm aware. But there was bad blood over 1908. It was the Balkan Wars which really shifted that balance because both the Ottomans and the Hapsburgs saw it in their interests to impede the Balkan states. But in 1912 there was also the issue of the Italians pushing their interests into Libya and the Balkans. Which the Austrians wondered if this would not lead to Italy following up by encroaching on Austria's sphere. I guess they were still allied, but the issue at hand is due to this the Ottomans and Hapsburgs were in an awkward spot with regards to their own relations. You could say that the Balkan Wars is what made Ottoman entry into the Central Powers a possibility.

But to answer the main question, it comes down to the Ottomans not being prepared for a war with the Allies.
 
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Sep 2019
145
Turkey
I can answer in less than ten words: because fighting European powers since 1730 THEY WERE LOSERS!

What a trio of "seconds": Austria, Italy and OE. Dios mio.
Losers ? Fighting with the whole world more than 200 years and you say that's a lost . Without the failed administrators and commanders there was no way for Europeans to beat Ottoman Empire .

"We Turks are not a nation with an army , we're an army with a nation " Mustafa Kemal Atatürk



And I'm writing a few victories below(1700-1923) ;


-Prut River Campaign (1710)

-Ottoman - Persian War (1730 - 1736)

Ottoman - Russian and Austrian war ( 1735 - 1739)

- Siege of Acre (1799) Napoleon's first defeat


-Crimean war (1853)

- Siege of Plevna (1877)

-Ottoman - Greece war (1897)

- Siege of Kut (1915)

-Gallipoli campaign (1915)

- Turkish war of independence (1919 - 1923 )
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,097
Republika Srpska
Kotromanic was writing about the perception the European powers had about the Ottomans. He did not claim it was true or false. But it is true that the European powers believed the Ottoman Empire was a state in decline, a sick man of Europe.
 

Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
5,163
Iowa USA
Kotromanic was writing about the perception the European powers had about the Ottomans. He did not claim it was true or false. But it is true that the European powers believed the Ottoman Empire was a state in decline, a sick man of Europe.
Famously Nicholas I of Russia is said to be the originator of the "Sick Man" meme (if we can use that word).

However, I think Fukas.... (oops! not our old friend, but the same avatar??) Manstein has identified a few "footnote" sort of campaigns where the Ottomans won.

On that list, which of these actions are victories over a heavyweight European power?

Right 1735-1739, I was off by a decade. My mistake. I'd expect that if one is using the nick "Manstein" they would want to balance 1739 with the results of both 1788 and of course 1809-1811?

If they had given a decent accounting against Allenby in 1917 then I'd tend to think of Gallipoli as more than the result of the necessary reticence of Jackie Fisher to use the Navy aggressively.
 
Sep 2019
145
Turkey
Famously Nicholas I of Russia is said to be the originator of the "Sick Man" meme (if we can use that word).

However, I think Fukas.... (oops! not our old friend, but the same avatar??) Manstein has identified a few "footnote" sort of campaigns where the Ottomans won.

On that list, which of these actions are victories over a heavyweight European power?

Right 1735-1739, I was off by a decade. My mistake. I'd expect that if one is using the nick "Manstein" they would want to balance 1739 with the results of both 1788 and of course 1809-1811?

If they had given a decent accounting against Allenby in 1917 then I'd tend to think of Gallipoli as more than the result of the necessary reticence of Jackie Fisher to use the Navy aggressively.
You can think whatever you want , there's a fact and you can't change it . And the fact is Sick man died bravely and honorable . And raised an another country . Gallipoli was one of the most desicive victory on the world history .

Sent from my GM8 go using Tapatalk
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,097
Republika Srpska
Once again, Kotromanic was talking about the perceptions of the Europeans concerning the Ottomans. Whether or not those were true is another matter entirely.

As a sidenote, the Sick Man died, but he did not die honourably.
 
Sep 2019
145
Turkey
Once again, Kotromanic was talking about the perceptions of the Europeans concerning the Ottomans. Whether or not those were true is another matter entirely.

As a sidenote, the Sick Man died, but he did not die honourably.
What do you mean by saying " not died honorably " I understand what Kotromanic talking about . And I agree with him .

Sent from my GM8 go using Tapatalk
 
Sep 2019
486
Slovenia
In Young Turks governament Enver and Talaat pasha were for alliance with Germany, Djemal pasha was for alliance with entente. So the leadership was split. Turkey was the most worried about Russia at that time. We can see this from secret treaty signed between Germany and Turkey in August 1914. Turkey went in war only in October 1914. Djemal pasha said in his writtings after the war that they waited because they were not prepared enough.

Also in Germany some were sceptical about the alliance with Turkey for example German ambassador in the country, but Wilhelm II decided that in present situation every gun which will together with A.H. shoot on Slavs in the Balkans is welcomed.




History of diplomacy, book 2, written by a group of authors, published in 1947 in Ljubljana, pages 273-274.
 
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