Why did only Asian based countries defeat the Mongol invasions?

Jun 2013
1,445
Mundo Nuevo
#1
The Chinese Tran dynasty of Vietnam, Champa, Java, the Delhi Sultanate, and the Mamulukes defeated Mongol invasions (The Japanese were saved by a wind). Mamelukes were based in Egypt but had control of larges parts of the Levant and fought the Mongols from there.

The Tran dynasty was founded by a family of ethnic Chinese whose ancestors immigrated to Vietnam during the Ly dynasty from what is now modern day Fujian province of China. They were among many Chinese families who immigrated during that time to Vietnam.

Tr?n dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vietnam and the Chinese Model: A Comparative Study of Vietnamese and Chinese ... - Alexander Woodside - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books

History Without Borders: The Making of an Asian World Region, 1000-1800 - Geoffrey C. Gunn - Google Books

Sources of Vietnamese Tradition - Google Books

The Tran then defeated three Mongol invasions, killed the commanding Mongol General and destroyed an entire Mongol army at Bach Dang river in 1288.

Battle of B?ch ??ng (1288) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Vietnam"]Mongol invasions of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Champa fought alongside the Tran against the Mongols.

Delhi Sultanate

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_India"]Mongol invasions of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Java

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Java"]Mongol invasion of Java - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Japan

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Japan"]Mongol invasions of Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Mamlukes

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_the_Levant"]Mongol invasions of the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The Mongol invasions were not defeated by Europeans. European armies were defeated and routed repeatedly by the Mongols and only the death of Ögedei Khan led to the Mongols and their commander Möngke Khan being withdrawn to discuss the succession to the throne. Winston Churchill admitted that it was the death of the Great Khan which stopped the conquest, while European armies were repeatedly crushed by the Mongols while the rest of Europe lay at their mercy

Mongol invasion of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Europe in fact, was the site of the last remnant of the Mongol Empire. It was in Europe that the Genghisid ruled Crimean Khanate lasted until 1783 and continued to raid and attack the European countries around it for slaves to sell to the Ottoman Empire. All other areas had long thrown off Mongol rule.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate"]Crimean Khanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
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Offspring

Ad Honorem
Mar 2013
7,381
România
#2
Do these not count?

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blue_Waters"]Battle of Blue Waters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kulikovo"]Battle of Kulikovo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Mar 2012
2,347
#3

The Mongols were repelled from Europe several times. As this is all from Wiki, I don't think it constitutes copyright violation:



An unsuccessful raid followed in 1287, led by
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talabuga"]Talabuga[/ame] and Nogai Khan. Lublin, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazovia"]Mazovia[/ame], Sandomierz and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieradz"]Sieradz[/ame] were successfully raided, but they were defeated at Kraków, although this city too was devastated. This raid consisted of less than one tumen, since the Golden Horde's armies were tied down in a new conflict which the Il-Khanate initiated in 1284. The force sent was not sufficient to meet the full Polish army, nor did it have any siege engineers or equipment to breach city walls. It raided a few caravans, burned a few small towns, and fled when the Polish army was mustered.

After the death of Khan Ögedei, Batu decided to return from Hungary to Mongolia. Part of his army invaded Bulgaria, but was defeated by the Bulgarian army under Tsar
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Asen_II"]Ivan Asen II[/ame]
. The successors of Tsar Ivan Asen II - the regency of Kaliman Asen I decided to pay tax to the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde"]Golden Horde[/ame]. In 1271 Nogai Khan led a successful raid against the country, which was a vassal of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde"]Golden Horde[/ame] until the early 14th century. Bulgaria was again raided by the Tatars in 1274, 1280 and 1285. In 1278 and 1279 Tsar [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivailo"]Ivailo[/ame] lead the Bulgarian army and crushed the Mongol raids before being surrounded at [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silistra"]Silistra[/ame]. After a three-month siege, he managed to once again break through the elite Mongol forces, forcing them to retreat north of the Danube.

In the mid-1280s Nogai Khan led an invasion of Hungary alongside
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talabuga"]Talabuga[/ame]
. Nogai lead an army that ravaged [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvania"]Transylvania[/ame] with success: Cities like Szászrégen, Brassó and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beszterce"]Beszterce[/ame] were plundered and ravaged. However Talabuga, who led the main army in Northern Hungary, was stopped by the heavy snow of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_Mountains"]Carpathians[/ame] and the invading force was defeated[36] near Pest by the royal army of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladislaus_IV_of_Hungary"]Ladislaus IV[/ame] and ambushed by the Székely in the return. As with later invasions, it was repelled handily, the Mongols losing much of their invading force. The outcome could not have contrasted more sharply with the 1241 invasion, mostly due to the reforms of Béla IV, which included advances in military tactics and, most importantly, the widespread building of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castles"]stone castles[/ame], both responses to the defeat of the Hungarian Kingdom in 1241.

In 1293 a large Mongol-Bulgarian alliance raided into Serbia, where Serbian king
Stefan Uroš II Milutin
defeated them. However, the Serbian king acknowledged Nogai's supremacy and sent his son as hostage to prevent further hostility when Nogai threatened to lead a punitive expedition himself.[37]
he Battle of Blue Waters ([ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarusian_language"]Belarusian[/ame]: Бітва на Сініх Водах, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_language"]Lithuanian[/ame]: Mūšis prie Mėlynųjų Vandenų, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language"]Ukrainian[/ame]: Битва на Синіх Водах, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language"]Russian[/ame]: Битва на Синих Водах or Синеводская битва) was a battle fought at some time in autumn 1362 or 1363 on the shores of the Synjucha River, left tributary of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Bug"]Southern Bug[/ame], between the armies of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania"]Grand Duchy of Lithuania[/ame] and the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde"]Golden Horde[/ame]. The Lithuanians won a decisive victory and finalized their conquest of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Kiev"]Principality of Kiev[/ame].
The Vozha battle was the first serious victory of the Russians over a big army of the Golden Horde. It had a big psychological effect before the famous [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kulikovo"]Battle of Kulikovo[/ame] because it demonstrated the vulnerability of the Tatar cavalry which was unable to overcome tough resistance or withstand determined counter-attacks. For Mamai, the defeat of Vozha meant a direct challenge by Dmitry which caused him to start a new unsuccessful campaign two years later

The Battle of Kulikovo ([ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language"]Russian[/ame]: Мамаево побоище, Донское побоище, Куликовсfought between the armies of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde"]Golden Horde[/ame] under the command of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamai"]Mamai[/ame], and various Russian principalities under the united command of Prince [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Donskoy"]Dmitri of Moscow[/ame]. The battle took place on 8 September 1380, at the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulikovo_Field"]Kulikovo Field[/ame] near the Don River (now [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tula_Oblast"]Tula Oblast[/ame]) and was won by Dmitri, who became known as Donskoy (of the Don) after the battle. Although the victory did not end the Mongol rule over the Russian principalities, it is widely regarded by Russian historians as the turning point when Mongol influence began to wane and Muscovite power to rise—a process that eventually led to Muscovite independence and formation of the modern Russian stateкая битва, битва на Куликовом поле) was
 
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Mar 2012
2,347
#4
I think it is also worthwhile to note that a number of sources are begging to question the entire narrative of the Mongols withdrawing because of the death of Ogedei. One book I was reading stated that the Mongols forces, after withdrawing from Europe, did not go back immediately, but lingered in Russia for over a year. In any event, I have been able to find references to dozens of Mongol defeats in sieges and even battles during the great invasion. A few below. Again, I am using Wiki to avoid the copyright violation, but these are all mentioned in respectable sources. I have had a number of people question Olomuoc, and so researched it and found it ultimately sourced to a Perian historian, Rashid Al-Din Hamadani

The Mongols' pursuit of Béla IV continued from Zagreb through [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonia"]Pannonia[/ame] to [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatia"]Dalmatia[/ame]. While in pursuit, the Mongols under the leadership of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadan"]Kadan[/ame] (Qadan) suffered a major defeat at [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klis_Fortress"]Klis Fortress[/ame] in Croatia in March 1242.[26


The Mongols suffered serious casualties at [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc"]Olomouc[/ame] in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravia"]Moravia[/ame], in a fight with a numerically superior pan-European army in terrain disadvantageous for the use of cavalry.

. In 1241 Wenceslaus successfully repelled a raid on Bohemia by forces serving under [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batu_Khan"]Batu Khan[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subutai"]Subutai[/ame] of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire"]Mongol Empire[/ame] as part of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe"]Mongol invasion of Europe[/ame]. The Mongols did not send their main army to the Kingdom of Poland, Bohemia and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia"]Silesia[/ame], and only [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravia"]Moravia[/ame] suffered devastation at their hands. The raids into these four areas were led by [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baidar"]Baidar[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadan"]Kadan[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orda_Khan"]Orda Khan[/ame] with a force of around 20,000 Mongols. Following the Mongol victory at the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Legnica"]Battle of Legnica[/ame], Wenceslaus fell back to gather reinforcements from [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuringia"]Thuringia[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electorate_of_Saxony"]Saxony[/ame], but was overtaken by the Mongol vanguard at Kłodzko. However, the Bohemian cavalry easily fended off the Mongol detachment.
 
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Jul 2013
393
USA
#5
Koreans successfully defeated a mongol yuan force also
And it took 30 years for Mongols to take Korea. Also it was one of the few battles where a Mongol general was killed
 
Jul 2014
94
Melbourne
#6
Koreans successfully defeated a mongol yuan force also
And it took 30 years for Mongols to take Korea. Also it was one of the few battles where a Mongol general was killed
Not really.

Goryo northern defence army was defeated initially and Goryo's ruler didn't send the most well-trained army in Goryo to fight against Mongols anymore.
As a result of this, whole Korean peninsula was burned by Mongols.

I hardly can say ""successfully"".
 
Jun 2013
1,445
Mundo Nuevo
#7
I'm talking about the initial conquests, not later raids.

Otherwise obviously, all the defeats the Mongols suffered when eventually getting driven out of the conquered areas would have counted.

And as I said, Europe was the last area where a Mongol Khan was still ruling. The Crimean Khanate was the last Genghisid ruled Khanate by a descendant of Genghis Khan, and it continually raided its neighbors and was not ended until 1783. In all other areas, Genghisid Khanates were driven out, overthrown, and conquered.

In the first Mongol invasion of Europe when they were bent on conquest, they routed European armies in one of the fastest lightning campaigns in history.

The Great Republic: A History of America - Google Books

But Asia too was marching against the West. At one moment it had seemed as if all Europe would succumb to a terrible menace looming up from the East. Heathen Mongol hordes from the heart of Asia, formidable horsemen armed with bows, had rapidly swept over Russia, Poland, Hungary, and in 1241 inflicted simultaneous crushing defeats upon the Germans near Breslau and upon European cavalry near Buda. Germany and Austria at least lay at their mercy. Providentially in this year the Great Khan died in Mongolia; the Mongol leaders hastened back the thousands of miles to Karakorum, their capital, to elect his successor, and Western Europe escaped.
 
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Feb 2011
1,595
#8
The thread's premise turns logic upside down. Almost all of the Mongol conquests were in Asia, in a way all since the Ukraine steppe was not proper Europe then, and the Mongols did not achieve this by inviting their Asian enemies for tea and cookies.
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
33,788
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#10
The thread's premise turns logic upside down. Almost all of the Mongol conquests were in Asia, in a way all since the Ukraine steppe was not proper Europe then, and the Mongols did not achieve this by inviting their Asian enemies for tea and cookies.
What's "proper Europe" then?