Why did the Anatolians submitted so easily to the Mongoloid Turks?

Jul 2015
679
Near East
Zoroastrian women married Indian men willingly and left Persian men just like Darius own mother and wife loved Alexander more then any Persian male. Nice one.
Assuming that the bit about Darius III's family isn't Hellenic propaganda aimed at legitimising Alexander in the sources, and assuming that Zoroastrian women "left Persian men" but that Zoroastrian men did not "leave Persian women". One reason why the Parsi community has been declining in numbers is that both men and women are marrying outside their faith. But in an attempt at compensating for your obvious Punjabi inferiority complex and healing your wounded Punjabi ego, you tend to look at certain issues from the perspective the suits your agenda. You try to hit a Persian nerve, but the more you try, the more lame you become.

Persian never really ruled the small part of India lol. There were many kingdoms fighting eachother there. Satraps and all. The Persians were chased away quickly,by the Punjabis.
We ruled your lands more than once. Remind me what our great leader Nader Shah did when he invaded your country? You don't want to read about what we Persians did to your people when the great Nader led us to your capital, that would really hurt. But what Nader Shah did to India was not something really extraordinary, since we Persians curbed stomped your people whenever we encountered them.

Afterwards ofcourse Alexander taught you guys a nice lesson you never recovered from. Even Alexander didn't go beyond the utter northwestern part of India.
One could basically say Persia was destroyed by the Greeks, leaving behind nothing but chaos. Karma, certainly.
How many empires did we Iranians have throughout our history? Last time I checked, it was more than 10. Alexander destroyed only one of them, and we returned even stronger. On the other hand, how many empires did you Punjabis have? Or a more apt question would be how long were your people suffering under foreign boots.
 
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Jul 2014
1,834
Yes
Kartir.. muslim Iran wasn't Persia anymore. During that time most Persians were already raped, mass murdered and submitted by Mongoloids. Let's not get into the subject because you know what the Mongols and muslim Turkomongols have done to you guys. And yes they were your leaders and still are your leaders. Ya, very Persian.

Let's face the fact Kartir, Persia is gone. Persians are history, basically and Persian identity is something like getting a new nosejob for nowrooz.
 
Jul 2014
1,834
Yes
And in the end most Indians refused to convert to the semitic religion of Islam, even when being in war with eachother when they it was just all small kingdoms. The Persians on the other hand, after being mass raped, slaughtered etc. chose Islam willingly just to retain their positions. Well done Persians.
 
Feb 2015
2,038
UK
We may understand this process in the present by observing Pakistan - this is why probably the topic fascinates Indians and those of Indian descent. What is today the contiguous area of Pakistan was until 1947 racially, culturally and linguistically indistinguishable from what is now known as North India. Yet, even just 68 years later, the Pakistani Urdu has been de-Sanskritized and re-Arabized, the culture is now barely recognizable with its emphasis on minority persecution and increasingly radical forms of Islam. And the populace is taught/wants to believe that they are all descended from Arabs.
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No offense that is lot of baloney. Less than 1% of the population claim any Arab heritage. I come across this so often. No, idea where this comes from. If you have any credible source to back this claim please do share.

What I do know is that there are couple of ethnic groups each very attached to their heritage which is not Arab. Being Muslim does not equate to being Arab.

Anyway I leave you guy's to it but don't use this thread as a vehicle to mourn the death of the British construct - British India. It ended in 1947 when they left.

Check this out > http://historum.com/speculative-history/99100-no-partition-india.html

Punjab for example, which is nothing more than a cheap Indian copy of Persia, no offence.
Hehe ... Pithy comment and pretty close to the truth.
 
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Aug 2014
1,009
Canada
Well there was the Janissary - The turks would kidnap christian boys and raise them in the sultans army. The indigenous inhabitants had no real rights or protections and thus lived under constant threat of being massacred. Every Greek knows stories that have been passed down through their family of Turkish massacres, many of these events are not recorded in history books as it would obviously upset a certain NATO member. And the lame-duck in the White House certainly doesn't want to tread on any toes. Many of the massacres took place in the frontiers in Armenia around the time of Manzikert, others took place on the Greek Islands and others took place in the coastal colonies in Asia Minor.

The assimilation techniques employed against the Anatolian Greeks were really one of the most perverse examples of genocide in human history. And I'm not just referring to the Armenian Genocide in WW1, this goes back centuries to Manzikert. Christians were being slaughtered by the Turks and that was the reason why the Byzantine Emperor appealed to the Pope for aid.
Whereas other nomadic tribes eventually dissipated because they didn't really have a strong religious identity (Huns, Avars etc...) they just absorbed into the local culture the Turks had a religion that taught them genocide against the Christians. People forget about early Islamic eschatology - the muslims believed that once Rome and Constantinople were subjected to Islam then the end of the world would come about. There was a relentless religious jihad against the christians in Anatolia. That was the spark for the crusades. It needs to be remembered that by 1000 AD the Arab Caliphate was exhausted and in decline - it was only revived by the Turkish migrations, and brought about a new wave of militant islamic violence against subjected ethnic groups.

The Anatolians that assimilated the fastest seemed to be in the rural regions. I could guess that in the hinterlands of modern Turkey, the Byzantine had the land divided into themes. Thus most of the people there would be illiterate peasants that held little loyalty to anyone (the military Theme system had weakened by Manzikert...). Most of the churches and cultural centers were on the West coast such as at Smyrna. Those cities seemed to have held onto their Greek heritage more readily. I would say that the larger cities were more difficult to assimiliate than the sparsely populated rural areas.

Your understanding of the mechanism of conversion in Anatolia makes sense to me. I would go further in stating that this sheds light on the universal three instruments of terror employed by Islamists over the centuries across geographies and time frames: Mass Murder, Molestation/Rape and Kidnapping/Castration of Native Males. These methods were introduced by Arab Muslims and perfected by Turks.

Echoes of the use of these instruments lie not just in the structure of the Janissary/Mamluk corps, and the 20th century Armenian genocide but also the present actions of ISIS against say the Yazidis and Christians, the terror attacks in Paris as well as the recent events in Cologne on New Years Eve.
 
Jul 2015
679
Near East
Kartir.. muslim Iran wasn't Persia anymore. During that time most Persians were already raped, mass murdered and submitted by Mongoloids. Let's not get into the subject because you know what the Mongols and muslim Turkomongols have done to you guys. And yes they were your leaders and still are your leaders. Ya, very Persian.

Let's face the fact Kartir, Persia is gone. Persians are history, basically and Persian identity is something like getting a new nosejob for nowrooz.
And Muslim Punjab isn't Punjab any longer. Punjab has been conquered, defiled, exploited, and colonised more times than I care to count. It is a region mutilated by foreigners beyond recognition, no longer having a unique identity but instead is nothing more than a cheap copy of neighbouring cultures, mostly Persian.

If Persia is gone, why are you trying to so hard to prove it? We all know why, because it isn't gone, certainly not to Punjabis themselves who celebrate Nowruz, who have Persian naming practices, whose language is heavily influenced by Persian, and whose high culture used to be Persian culture. Not to mention that if it weren't for the British, India would have been mostly Persianised. Even India's most famous icon, the Taj Mahal, is a Persian architectural masterpiece.

You're jealous of Persia, Vinnie, we get it. You know that Punjab is basically a Persian/English cultural colony, and it makes your blood boil and your self-esteem and self-worth sink to the bottom.

You said Turko-Mongols are still "our leaders". What have you been smoking exactly?

Here's the thing, the Mongols may have conquered us by the sword, but we conquered them with our culture like every invader who came before them. That's why we Persians don't act like sore losers (or like Punjabis).

And don't talk to me about nose jobs, Vinnie. Indians are notorious for their bleach fetish, as having a physical appearance similar to their colonial masters makes them feel better about themselves. Inferiority complex is strong in India. and you are a prime example of this sad phenomenon.

And in the end most Indians refused to convert to the semitic religion of Islam, even when being in war with eachother when they it was just all small kingdoms. The Persians on the other hand, after being mass raped, slaughtered etc. chose Islam willingly just to retain their positions. Well done Persians.
They adapted and reconfigured their identity and culture according to their circumstances, which shows that they are smart and resilient. Cultures/peoples who don't adapt die out sooner or later.

BTW, you talk about rape all the time. You have rape fantasies or something?

And since you mentioned Islam, let me remind you that most Punjabis are Muslims.
 
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antocya

Ad Honorem
May 2012
5,778
Iraq
Kartir.. muslim Iran wasn't Persia anymore. During that time most Persians were already raped, mass murdered and submitted by Mongoloids. Let's not get into the subject because you know what the Mongols and muslim Turkomongols have done to you guys. And yes they were your leaders and still are your leaders. Ya, very Persian.

Let's face the fact Kartir, Persia is gone. Persians are history, basically and Persian identity is something like getting a new nosejob for nowrooz.
Well is there any country that didn't go through invasions and demographic and cultural changes over millennia?
 
Aug 2014
1,009
Canada
Well is there any country that didn't go through invasions and demographic and cultural changes over millennia?
Antocya: if we are to use one objective metric, namely the ability to preserve one's ancestral religion (not that key concepts/precepts cannot evolve over time but that the said change needs to evolutionary instead of disruptive), then only two peoples stand out: The Jews and the Hindus, who have each managed to at least maintain their ancient religions from thousands of years ago.

But I would argue that beneath the outward manifestation of Christianity, the strange Greco-Roman combination of empirical rationalism with the worship of very human Gods, has also persisted to the present day in Western culture in the form of modern scientific thought admixed with the pervasive cult of celebrity.
 
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antocya

Ad Honorem
May 2012
5,778
Iraq
Antocya: if we are to use one objective metric, namely the ability to preserve one's ancestral religion (not that key concepts/precepts cannot evolve over time but that the said change needs to evolutionary instead of disruptive), then only two peoples stand out: The Jews and the Hindus, who have each managed to at least maintain their ancient religions from thousands of years ago.

But I would argue that beneath the outward manifestation of Christianity, the strange Greco-Roman combination of empirical rationalism with the worship of very human Gods, has also persisted to the present day in Western culture in the form of modern scientific thought admixed with the pervasive cult of celebrity.
Well that's a very interesting topic and I'd like to discuss it more but I'm out having drinks with a friend and shouldn't be hanging out on historum too much. Maybe start another thread? I have a feeling this one will be closed soon.
 
Aug 2014
1,009
Canada
Well that's a very interesting topic and I'd like to discuss it more but I'm out having drinks with a friend and shouldn't be hanging out on historum too much. Maybe start another thread? I have a feeling this one will be closed soon.
Have fun. Historum is my "break" from tons of work. Will look to start a thread on this next week.