Why did the Marathas succeed in their mission but Vijayanagar didnt?

Both Vijayanagar and Marathas won battles, but lost the war.
Not really. The Vijayanagar Empire succesfully protected southern India for more than 200 years against the Turks and the Maratha Empire caused the fall of the Mughal Dynasty and only collapsed after more than 150 years. Even the British Empire collapsed after 150 years. Does that mean that they also lost the war?
 
Oct 2015
1,133
India
At the peak of their power both the Vijayanagar Empire and Maratha Empire represented the greatest native power in South Asia. The Vijayanagar Empire defeated the Turks and caused the fall of the Bahmani Sultanate at a time when the Turkic people were the most powerful people in the world.
The Maratha Empire defeated the Mughals and destroyed the Portuguese and even defeated the British in the first Anglo-Maratha War.
Both succeeded in their main goals but both collapsed later on when their time came
Hi @Theseus

This is a new angle of looking at Vijaynagar Empire for me at least: That it lead to weakening of of Bahmani Sultanate and ultimately its division into five baby sultanates. So I have prepared an outline of events just to hang my thoughts on the subject:


1. Founding

Vijaynagar Empire and Bahmani Sultanate were founded around the same time (1336/1346, 1347).

2. Vijaynagar Empire:

Rulers were Hindu. It grew powerful and built a magnificent capital at Vijaynagar. Empire not only slowed the destruction of Hindu heritage & culture in southern India but also enhanced them. It lasted for about 224 years (1336/1346 - 1565). In the end it was defeated by combined forces of five Deccan Sultanates and its magnificent capital destroyed which took full six months. Its territories were divided between Bijapur and Golconda Sultanates. However, descendants continued to rule small kingdoms for another 81 years till 1646.

3. Bahmani Sultanate:

Rulers were Shia Muslim. It was also huge and lasted for 154 years (1347 - 1490/1518), less than Vijaynagar Empire. It became weak due to various reasons - not the least being continuous conflicts with Vijaynagar Empire. It disintegrated in the last three decades of its existence (1490-1518) resulting in formation of five baby Sultanates

4. Deccan Sultanates:

The five baby sultanates born in turbulent decades are collectively called Deccan Sultanates. These were Bidar (1492), Berar (1490), Ahmadnagar (1490), Golconda (1518), and Bijapur (1518). They were all Shia Muslim dynasties like parent Bahmani.

In 1565, the five united against Vijaynagar Empire and ended it. You can say that sultanates were smart and united against a common enemy who was playing them, or Vijaynagar was dumb to give them reason enough to unite.

Deccan Sultanates also did not last long. Berar was annexed (1574, lasted 84 years) by Ahmadnagar, Bidar was annexed (1619, lasted 127 years) by Bijapur. The remaining three sultanates were annexed by Mughals (Prince / Emperor Aurangzeb) - Ahmadnagar (1636, lasted 146 years), Bijapur (1686, lasted 168 years), Golconda (1687, lasted 169 years). Mughals, as we know, were Sunni Muslims.

5. Prolonged Conflict between Vijaynagar & Bahmani

The following links give some details:

Indian Hist (Opt) : General survey of the prolonged conflict
Dictionary of Wars (There are three entries one after other)
Vijayanagara Voices (Yet another take)
A Forgotten Empire Chapter 3
First Bahmani - Vijayanagar war (1362-1366) | History of Pashtuns (This is by our member @Azad67 )
Battle of Raichur - Wikipedia (1520)
Battle of Talikota - Wikipedia (1565)
 
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kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,767
USA
Not really. The Vijayanagar Empire succesfully protected southern India for more than 200 years against the Turks and the Maratha Empire caused the fall of the Mughal Dynasty and only collapsed after more than 150 years. Even the British Empire collapsed after 150 years. Does that mean that they also lost the war?
But the fact remains, that is : Both Vijayanagar and Marathas won battles, but lost the war.

British never intended to rule India for a thousand years, they always knew that they would leave India one day. And they left with the satisfaction of a job well done. It was the Indians who lost by the partition.
 
Oct 2015
1,133
India
British never intended to rule India for a thousand years, they always knew that they would leave India one day. And they left with the satisfaction of a job well done. It was the Indians who lost by the partition.
The British were forced to leave in 1947 and were not otherwise willing. After independence of India they continued to rule in 50+ colonies because those colonies were too weak to evict them and/or put the fear of life in them.

Every loser finds an excuse for defeat. British found theirs, and one can't grudge that. However, for others to accept that as reality is something else.
 
Likes: Zanis
Oct 2015
1,133
India
British never intended to rule India for a thousand years, they always knew that they would leave India one day. And they left with the satisfaction of a job well done. It was the Indians who lost by the partition.
British Colonial Rule was always exploitative and British understood that. Here is a quote from Colonel James Tod

"When Rome colonized far-off Europe, she introduced her arts. “What has Britain done in this way? What portion of the millions of gold extorted from the industry of her Indian subjects, has she applied to her Indian subjects? Where are the bridges, the public roads, the places of recreation, such as were raised by Trajan and Hadrian? Where are the shaded walks, the caravanserais, the wells, or reservoirs made by our predecessors, the intolerant and oppressive Mahomedans, during their sway in Hindustan? Let the holders of India stock in London answer these questions.”
I may conclude these reflections with one more, obviously exemplifying the real nature of our government of the sword. ...
- Colonel Tod, James. Travels in Western India. 1839. page-66

Tod is saying that even the Mughals were better than the British. Read Lala Lajpat Rai's books from 1910s - he gives about a hundred quotes from Europeans to say how England had negative impact on India.


As time went on, Britishers became more sophisticated in hiding the true nature of their colonization. However, finding today an inability to see both sides of the coin makes me wonder how human mind or logic works.
 
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Nov 2014
485
India
But the fact remains, that is : Both Vijayanagar and Marathas won battles, but lost the war.

British never intended to rule India for a thousand years, they always knew that they would leave India one day. And they left with the satisfaction of a job well done. It was the Indians who lost by the partition.
This looks like trolling nothing else.
 
Likes: Zanis
But the fact remains, that is : Both Vijayanagar and Marathas won battles, but lost the war.

British never intended to rule India for a thousand years, they always knew that they would leave India one day. And they left with the satisfaction of a job well done. It was the Indians who lost by the partition.
Most people do not understand the importance of the Vijayanagar Empire because of lack of historical knowledge. The Vijayanagar Empire not only protected southern India for more than 200 years against the Turkic invaders but they were also responsible for protecting ancient Indian knowledge and culture. Indian mathematics collapsed in Northern India after the 12th century because of the Turkic invasion but continued to flourish in Southern India because of the Vijayanagar Empire. The greatest mathematicians of late medieval and modern period came all from southern India. Adding to that many North Indian texts were lost in Northern India and were only rediscovered in Southern India. The great ancient text Arthashastra of the Maurya period was only rediscovered in southern India and many achievements of Northern India like the great mathematician Aryabhata was preserved in Southern India.

This Empire preserved many elements of Indian science, culture and architecture and kept the flag of the Indian people flying high at a time when most people in the world like Persians, Arabs, Eastern Europeans and Central Asian had already surrendered to the Turkic people.
There is no way that this proud Empire called Vijayanagar will ever be forgotten by the Indian people.
 
Feb 2019
88
Mumbai
Most people do not understand the importance of the Vijayanagar Empire because of lack of historical knowledge. The Vijayanagar Empire not only protected southern India for more than 200 years against the Turkic invaders but they were also responsible for protecting ancient Indian knowledge and culture. Indian mathematics collapsed in Northern India after the 12th century because of the Turkic invasion but continued to flourish in Southern India because of the Vijayanagar Empire. The greatest mathematicians of late medieval and modern period came all from southern India. Adding to that many North Indian texts were lost in Northern India and were only rediscovered in Southern India. The great ancient text Arthashastra of the Maurya period was only rediscovered in southern India and many achievements of Northern India like the great mathematician Aryabhata was preserved in Southern India.

This Empire preserved many elements of Indian science, culture and architecture and kept the flag of the Indian people flying high at a time when most people in the world like Persians, Arabs, Eastern Europeans and Central Asian had already surrendered to the Turkic people.
There is no way that this proud Empire called Vijayanagar will ever be forgotten by the Indian people.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Vijayanagar empire is criminally underrated by modern Hindus, people seriously have no idea how different our history and our knowedge of India would be without them. Hinduism in its modern sense owes a massive debt to them.
 
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Apr 2018
1,562
Mythical land.
Most people do not understand the importance of the Vijayanagar Empire because of lack of historical knowledge. The Vijayanagar Empire not only protected southern India for more than 200 years against the Turkic invaders but they were also responsible for protecting ancient Indian knowledge and culture. Indian mathematics collapsed in Northern India after the 12th century because of the Turkic invasion but continued to flourish in Southern India because of the Vijayanagar Empire. The greatest mathematicians of late medieval and modern period came all from southern India. Adding to that many North Indian texts were lost in Northern India and were only rediscovered in Southern India. The great ancient text Arthashastra of the Maurya period was only rediscovered in southern India and many achievements of Northern India like the great mathematician Aryabhata was preserved in Southern India.

This Empire preserved many elements of Indian science, culture and architecture and kept the flag of the Indian people flying high at a time when most people in the world like Persians, Arabs, Eastern Europeans and Central Asian had already surrendered to the Turkic people.
There is no way that this proud Empire called Vijayanagar will ever be forgotten by the Indian people.
Did gajapatis and rajputs not play same role in east and north india?
 
Did gajapatis and rajputs not play same role in east and north india?
In terms of scientifical output and achievements in the fields of administration and literature the Vijayanagar Empire achieved more than the Gajapatis and the Rajputs. But I agree with you that in terms of military success the Gajapatis and the most powerful Rajput state Mewar achieved similar success as the Vijayanagar Empire. Particularly the 15th century was a great time for the Gajapatis and Mewar as both defeated the Turkic invaders during this period
 
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