Why did the nazi abandon the offensive at Kursk?

Jul 2017
335
Argentina
#1
So, in some point of WWII, during 1943, the nazi had invaded Russia, they were pretty close to Moskva. In the southern part of the eastern front, they were heading to oil camps, and Kursk city was in the middle. Obviously, Kursk people would have made good slaves in the nazi war industry. They had to stop the advance, until enough panther and tiger tanks arrived. But it also gave the Russian (properly informed by british intelligence) time to set their defenses in the ground and make all sort of preparations. When the tanks arrived in july, the operation was launched and the expensive and heavy tiger showed all of its value.
Was this the battle in which Russians used dogs trained in Pavlov’s conditioned reflex to carry bombs under the tanks??

So, germans got to beat Russian defenses, but it was that same week that the allies took Sicily. The nazi thought it was important to support their friend Mussolini and took troops from Russia to go back to Italy. After that, Russians took the offensive and started their advance. Eventually, they arrived to Germany and to Berlin before the allies did.

It’s easy for me to make this analysis with Monday’s newspaper on hand (“con el diario del lunes”, we say in Argentina), but it looks to me that hitler’s decision to abandon Eastern front resulted in Germany invaded by Russians and not by the western allies. And, if I was in that bunker, what would I prefer? To be invaded from east by Russia or to be invaded from south and west by western allies?
They had the chance to know very well that a Russian invasion would be much, much worse in terms of soldiers taken as gulag slaves, woman getting rapped, cities being destroyed, artistic and scientific heritage being stolen, territory being reduced in favor of other countries, etc. They also knew that both un england and USA, there were some (few) sympathizers who may have been friendly after the war.

It’s like the germans chose that and not an allied invasion which would have been a little bit more human rights respectful.

What do you think? Should the nazi not have moved troops from Russia to Italy?

It’s just speculation, but if the allied had had the chance to take Germany first, It wouldn’t have been Knorosov deciphering the Maya writing system; and the Dresden codes would now be in some museum in London.

IMHO.

¡¡¡Aguante Talleres!!!
 
Apr 2018
259
Italy
#2
Kursk was failure by Germans, but this was by the beginning, Russian know Hitler's intentions and were prepared. Hitler also delayed the operation Zitadelle several times to have the Tigers and Panthers ready. Group Army South led by Manstaein fought well, while Group Army Center had less tanks and performed poor. Also Russians begun an offensive in Orel sector that Germans couldn't contain, while Allied conquered Sicily ad the Italian front needed reinforcements, that were taken by Group Army South.
 
Likes: Futurist
Jun 2017
143
UK
#3
There was no way the Germans could have won Kursk, or at least the eastern theatre by that point.

Germany didn’t ‘pick’ to let the Russians in, they got beaten back to Berlin with no choice. the troops sent to Italy wouldn’t have mattered, not even if you times them by ten. Hitler would have to divert a dozen million troops and a thousand tigers to lose against Russia, In the theory he could have won, and had a choice too.
 
Likes: Futurist
Jul 2017
335
Argentina
#4
There was no way the Germans could have won Kursk, or at least the eastern theatre by that point.

Germany didn’t ‘pick’ to let the Russians in, they got beaten back to Berlin with no choice. the troops sent to Italy wouldn’t have mattered, not even if you times them by ten. Hitler would have to divert a dozen million troops and a thousand tigers to lose against Russia, In the theory he could have won, and had a choice too.
Hey Mr. Thanks for reading. I also think the nazi had zero chance of winning the eastern front. But the chance they did have was to slow russian offensive. And that's what it looks to me they chose not to.
Had they done it and Berlin's wall would have been built in Konigsberg.
 
Likes: andyferdinard
Jun 2017
143
UK
#5
Hey Mr. Thanks for reading. I also think the nazi had zero chance of winning the eastern front. But the chance they did have was to slow russian offensive. And that's what it looks to me they chose not to.
Had they done it and Berlin's wall would have been built in Konigsberg.
If hitler had created a fortified line from (Kaliningrad) to the Balkan mountains as soon as they had the chance, we might have seen a more favourable outcome for Germany.

more time might have changed a lot of things, maybe even the Nazi state surviving. you never know.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,351
Sydney
#6
The Kursk operation was conceived as a sharp two pronged pincer move to destroy sufficient Soviet troops to obtain a year of quiet in the East
Hitler best troops , the Waffen ss would be moved West to counter the allied landing in Europe ,
then thing got ugly , Model which had pushed for the move in march got some serious doubt
there was too much delay ,,,,,the move was too obvious
his opinion was shared by Manstein and Hitler .
still the whole show had a life all of it's own , it would be 100% German , new weapons would be tested
Model on the north pincer went in all keen an bushy tailed the new tanks were an abject failure his opponent Rokossovsky had drilled his troops thorougly
it ended in the small town of Ponyri with divisions fighting for the post office
in the south the Germans did a bit better but also found that defence in depth was bleeding them
a East Hook resulted in the Tank Battle of Prokorovka

after having gone nowhere much, things started to go very wrong , in the North the soviet lanched a massive offensive which shattered the German lines
Model had to disentangle himself from his position to string a new defensive line
a sister operationin the south had to be delayed due to the loss of tanks , Much to Koniev fury

with the Allied landing in Sicily and losses out of proportion with the gains the Attack was terminated
 
Jul 2017
335
Argentina
#8
Really good Russian film about Kursk (with Englsih subtitles):

Hey Lins. Thanks for reading. I'll try to watch the movie. Thoug my english is not fast enough yo read subts in a movie.
Anyway, I don't know much about battles. My proposal was about the germans leaving the battle theater and consequences of that decision one year later.
 

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,038
Welsh Marches
#9
I don't know much about military matters either, but that film gives a lively impression of what a tank battle on a vast scale might look like; it is all very sinister.