Why did the Scythians invade the ancient Near East?

Jul 2019
27
Australia
#11
I was under the impression that their expedition into Mesopotamia was not just a couple of raids, sure they might have raided later on, but seeing as they established that kingdom as I mentioned under Partatua, and played an important role in the downfall of Assyria etc. for about a century...
 
Mar 2019
40
Europe
#12
The Goths did move Eastward ....... as far as the Ukraine, a break away tribe of Goths even settled in Cimmeria called the Greuthungi.

Two things, they moved into the space the Sarmatians had left open, the Sarmatians were busy migrating West and had allied with the Goths and other Germanic tribes previously against Rome, they were on good terms in general.

......... but what was the result of that Eastward movement?

A road block of Alan's on their East coast that prevented them from going any further and then a face full of Hun invasion, death and destruction ....... they were in fact the first large group of Western Germanics to feel the full fury of the Huns Westward push.

So in summary, this was a one off or i.e temporary reprieve.

If you look at the list of Westward moving hordes I listed in the other post you'll note it is a terrible idea to move East along the steppe and one short term Gothic kingdom (considering what happened to them) only proves my point.

Also a band of Goths getting as far as the Ukraine for a few years is hardly an example of deep Eastern incursion is it?
Slavs moved eastwards too though. Even further East (and South) than the Goths.
It's not just an exception.
 
#13
Slavs moved eastwards too though. Even further East (and South) than the Goths.
It's not just an exception.
Slavs did not move Eastward, they were already there.

Slavs were in Kiev and migrated south into the balkans.

Where is this settlement or kingdom of Slavs further East than north of the Caucaus Mountains? where is this imaginary Slav Kingdom north of Kazakhstan smack in the steppes?

The Slavs were in Russia ........ and I'm talking about old Rus lands (Kingdom of Kiev and around) not the modern Russia which stretches out East to Siberia.

Added, the Slavs were always further north in the worst territories out of the way as much as possible of the Steppe migration route further south, the Slavs have been the subject of some of the worst abuse by Eastern Nomads of any race on the planet.

Go look up the early Slavic tribes and how they had to live in marshes and hide in the frozen mud lands to stay out of harms way of the nomads, it was a miserable existence, Kiev was getting raided by Khazars for years before they got the upper hand when they joined up alliance with Byzantium.

That was the first time the Slavs had ever imposed their will on a nomadic power......... then they had to deal with the Kipchaks and Mongols = more misery.
 
#14
I was under the impression that their expedition into Mesopotamia was not just a couple of raids, sure they might have raided later on, but seeing as they established that kingdom as I mentioned under Partatua, and played an important role in the downfall of Assyria etc. for about a century...
I mentioned that earlier.

They allied with the Medes and Babylonians to destroy Assyria when Assyria had become over stretched, they didn't do it on their own.

........... other than that, raids, if they even dared when the Assyrians were at full power.

What you call a "Kingdom" I made the specific distinction of a "fixed settlement" or buildings, what the Scythians deem a kingdom was nothing more than a tent City, I don't consider a City of tents a "Kingdom", they lorded over territory not a "kingdom".
 
Mar 2019
40
Europe
#15
Slavs did not move Eastward, they were already there.

Slavs were in Kiev and migrated south into the balkans.

Where is this settlement or kingdom of Slavs further East than north of the Caucaus Mountains? where is this imaginary Slav Kingdom north of Kazakhstan smack in the steppes?

The Slavs were in Russia ........ and I'm talking about old Rus lands (Kingdom of Kiev and around) not the modern Russia which stretches out East to Siberia.

Added, the Slavs were always further north in the worst territories out of the way as much as possible of the Steppe migration route further south, the Slavs have been the subject of some of the worst abuse by Eastern Nomads of any race on the planet.

Go look up the early Slavic tribes and how they had to live in marshes and hide in the frozen mud lands to stay out of harms way of the nomads, it was a miserable existence, Kiev was getting raided by Khazars for years before they got the upper hand when they joined up alliance with Byzantium.

That was the first time the Slavs had ever imposed their will on a nomadic power......... then they had to deal with the Kipchaks and Mongols = more misery.
It depends on which group you are refferring to.
Slavs (South Slavs or the Sklaveni) on the Balkans were quite the aggressors in what was an already established Byzatine territory and they have succesfully penetrated as far south as Crete, Pelopponesse, the cyclades, and Cyprus. They had started to attack and settle for prolonged periods under Emperor Justinian I just shortly after Byzantine Empire had reached its all-time great territorial pinnacle.
Also Slavs didn't come south from Kiev, but rather from West Europe, modern Poland and later Romania.
 
Jun 2012
7,420
Malaysia
#16
Could be that the Scythians were initially an offspring of the Cimmerians, then grew bigger & stronger than their parent tribe. Just like the Sarmatians first arose as an offspring of the Scythians, then expanded & eventually dominated them. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
#17
It depends on which group you are refferring to.
Slavs (South Slavs or the Sklaveni) on the Balkans were quite the aggressors in what was an already established Byzatine territory and they have succesfully penetrated as far south as Crete, Pelopponesse, the cyclades, and Cyprus. They had started to attack and settle for prolonged periods under Emperor Justinian I just shortly after Byzantine Empire had reached its all-time great territorial pinnacle.
Also Slavs didn't come south from Kiev, but rather from West Europe, modern Poland and later Romania.
I'm referring to this group of slavs you claim moved East ........ proper East, not a few miles in that direction, I mean passed the Caucaus, into Central Asia.

Also I know Slavs were in Poland, I said Kiev and the "surrounding" areas.
 
#18
Could be that the Scythians were initially an offspring of the Cimmerians, then grew bigger & stronger than their parent tribe. Just like the Sarmatians first arose as an offspring of the Scythians, then expanded & eventually dominated them. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Yeah that's not right mate.

Cimmerians were locals to the area the Scythians actually began in Central Asia and migrated West hence why they dispersed the Cimmerians, all the Steppe nomads in that area are Indo-Iranian, same race as the later Parthians and Massagetae.

Cimmerians were more a balkan, possibly Slavic peoples who likely originally came from North or West of their Kingdom, I've never seen anything refer to them as Indo-Iranians, they also weren't nomads but a settlement peoples so there is little to no reason to think they were Indo-Iranians.
 
Jul 2019
27
Australia
#19
I thought the cimmerians were nomads too? Huh.

about the kingdoms, Skilurus's one around the 2nd century bc genuinely had a capital and probably various other cities. Also, the scythians were known to merge with the greek colonies a lot, so they probably made up a decent population of those cities.

They probably became less and less nomadic as the centuries passed, especially since they were mostly confined to modern day ukraine.
 
#20
I thought the cimmerians were nomads too? Huh.

about the kingdoms, Skilurus's one around the 2nd century bc genuinely had a capital and probably various other cities. Also, the scythians were known to merge with the greek colonies a lot, so they probably made up a decent population of those cities.

They probably became less and less nomadic as the centuries passed, especially since they were mostly confined to modern day ukraine.
"While earlier genomic studies have suggested close links between the Srubnaya and the central European Late Neolithic and Bronze Age populations (9), our knowledge of the genetic origins of the Cimmerians is limited. "
Ancient genomes suggest the eastern Pontic-Caspian steppe as the source of western Iron Age nomads | Science Advances

The fact is no one knew their origin, there has been as much as 3 separate theories, Thracian, Indo-Iranian, even Germanic or Celtic, the latter I don't believe at all.

Here's another article ..........
Cimmerians and Scythians - Herodotus reconsidered

I'll admit, the last time I studied the Cimmerian's was before the new 2018 "evidence" came out, although I'm shocked that they believe they can discern a Cimmerian grave from a Scythians.

For two reasons, one because they admit they believe they used the same grave decoration practices, so considering the Scythians replaced the Cimmerian's how do these researchers know one from the other? even carbon dating wouldn't help because it was a direct replacement i.e these people were around at the same time in those areas.

Regardless if they're DNA was Indo-Iranian then it would seem they were a nomadic tribe after all, so I'll buy that theory as per the latest research.

This information plus that they sacked Lydia makes me wonder if the Cimmerians actually developed into the Cappadocian's later on, they were also a Indo-Iranian peoples.
I always thought they must of been decendant's of the Medes or something to have migrated but it does seem there is room to think they may of originated from this group.

I'll have to look into that, would be very interesting if it is.

"Cappadocia, now well into the Roman era, still retained a significant Iranian character; Stephen Mitchell notes in the Oxford Dictionary of Late Antiquity: "Many inhabitants of Cappadocia were of Persian descent and Iranian fire worship is attested as late as 465".
 
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