Why didn't Russia militarily intervene in Ottoman Armenia during the Hamidian massacres in the mid-1890s?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,672
SoCal
#22
I doubt it. Russia had enough problems and the Crimea didn't go too well prior to that. I'm a bit baffled why they think they would have to be honest
Russia did win the Russo-Turkish War in 1877-1878, though?

Joking right? If not I guess it explains the thread.
Well, I was thinking of Florida when I wrote that. The U.S. really benefited from acquiring Florida considering that it became a popular vacation and retirement destination as well as provided useful living space for a lot of Americans (over 20 million people live in Florida right now). I was wondering if eastern Anatolia could have eventually become a Russian version of Florida if Russia would have acquired it either in the 1890s or after World War I (if Russia would have avoided going Red and thus would have remained in the war until the very end).
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,672
SoCal
#24
Massacre of Armenians didn’t happen in Russian empire in 1894-1896. It happened inIstanbul and around Wan lake (present day eastern Turkey) - Ottoman empire. Russian intervention would mean declaration of war against Ottoman empire. British empire, possibly Austro-Hungarian too would intervene. In those days European empires didn’t want Russia to control Bosporus and Dardanelles straits.
What about if Russia would have limited its goals to eastern Anatolia (the area around Lake Van) and publicly declared that it has no interest in seizing the Straits at this point in time?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,672
SoCal
#25
(last post on this, because is not quite on topic)
Well, the Ottoman Empire was defeated and not a factor in what happened. To illustrate here the maps of San Stefano vs Berlin: San Stefano was correctly including the ethnic areas. After british interference the maps were redrawn and Bulgaria was split. Of course ethnic tensions will arise when half of the population suddenly realizes they are put into the wrong country. The british btw did pretty much the same in the middle east with similar results.


View attachment 14233
Were Albania and northern Greece going to remain under Ottoman rule in the first map?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,672
SoCal
#26
Russia did win the Russo-Turkish War in 1877-1878, though?

Well, I was thinking of Florida when I wrote that. The U.S. really benefited from acquiring Florida considering that it became a popular vacation and retirement destination as well as provided useful living space for a lot of Americans (over 20 million people live in Florida right now). I was wondering if eastern Anatolia could have eventually become a Russian version of Florida if Russia would have acquired it either in the 1890s or after World War I (if Russia would have avoided going Red and thus would have remained in the war until the very end).
For what it's worth, I previously speculated about eastern Anatolia and other parts of Russia eventually becoming Russia's version of the Sun Belt if Russia would have avoided Bolshevism:

A Russian Sun Belt in the late 20th and 21st centuries?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,672
SoCal
#27
Berlin Congress at the end of 1878 already resolved minorities issue in Ottoman Empire as well as Straits from European (I mean Britain , France , Germany , Austria Hungary) perspective. If Russia tried to dissolve this status quo again less than 20 years (and again due to minorities issue which was the Russian Casus Beli for Crimean war in 1850'ies and 1877-78 Russo-Ottoman War) they wouldn't just find Britain and France opposing them (and they intevened to 1877-78 Russo-Ottoman War eventually , late I know but British PM Benjamin Disraeli sent Royal Navy through Dardanneles to protect Constantinopol once Russian Army came sight of the city) but also Germany and Austria Hungary. None of them wished Russia have too much influence on Caucaus , Iran and Balkans at the expense of Ottomans or Russian Navy entering Mediterranean. Wilhelminate Germany was just making first approaches to Ottoman Empire in mid 1890'ies and a young Kaiser Wilhelm II with temper issues wouldn't let his latest ally/protectorate Ottoman Empire to be humiliated again. Considering that a wiser Russian PM (Sergei Witte) who was well aware that both in railroad network as well as in industry Germany had been well ahead of Russian Empire , was in charge of Russian foreign policy back then ( much younger Tsar Nicholas II who had just took the throne , was much more mindful of his advice back then) Russian policy of non inteferance is not suprising.
Good points!

Also, for what it's worth, I don't think that France would have fought against Russia in such a scenario since it was already allied with Russia. However, Russia would not have been able to win a war against Britain, Germany, and Austria-Hungary during this time.

In addition to this, I suppose that declaring that Russia's interests only lie in eastern Anatolia and not in the Straits wouldn't have been enough to get Britain, Germany, and Austria-Hungary to accept a Russian annexation of eastern Anatolia, correct?

BTW, why didn't Russia demand to annex eastern Anatolia back in 1877-1878? It got Kars Oblast, but not the rest of eastern Anatolia.
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,608
USA
#29
If Russia had stayed on with WW1, meaning there was no communist revolution, there would be a real Armenia today. Russia was making good progress in eastern Turkey when it withdrew from WW1.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,672
SoCal
#30
Well, the legend says: Horizontal stripes are: Turquie et Roumelie orientale, so yes. Those were muslim populated areas.
It's interesting that there's no land connection between them and the rest of the Ottoman Empire, though. Rather, there's a Bulgarian corridor.

Also, what were Russia's initial war aims (as in, before Bismarck stepped in as an "honest broker") in eastern Anatolia in 1877-1878?