Why do we still call Mesopotamia the "cradle of civilization"?

Nov 2019
228
Memphis TN
There could also be a religious component. Genesis says the Garden of Eden was located near the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Adam and Eve were not civilized in the sense that they lived in a city, but still, 100 or 200 years ago people found it easier to believe that everything started in Mesopotamia.
Seems to me it is more likely the genus is account comes from the fact the local legends all recorded that the oldest cities were there.


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Feb 2017
526
Latin America
WHAT?!?

So pro-western propagandists faked the fact that a non-western area/group started civilization, as part of a pro-western bias?!?!

Lol

Wouldn’t they fake the fact it started in Europe?!?!

The oldest full cities we have found were in the ME..hence it is the cradle of civilization lol


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They did so following Greek prejudices as well as the idea that Europe's ancestors came from Asia (an idea that became dogma with William Jones). The Greeks worshipped everything about Egypt and said everything came from Egypt. Western archaeologists did their utmost to prove that the Greeks were right. I really think Mesopotamia and Egypt would not be getting such high praises had William Jones and Napoleon not existed and Europeans not come to dominate the world and impose their Hellenophile and Hegelian worldview.
 
Nov 2019
228
Memphis TN
They did so following Greek prejudices as well as the idea that Europe's ancestors came from Asia (an idea that became dogma with William Jones). The Greeks worshipped everything about Egypt and said everything came from Egypt. Western archaeologists did their utmost to prove that the Greeks were right. I really think Mesopotamia and Egypt would not be getting such high praises had William Jones and Napoleon not existed and Europeans not come to dominate the world and impose their Hellenophile and Hegelian worldview.
The Greeks said everything came from Egypt, and the archeology agrees... or close enough.. definitely no one was building the size of coties and structures they were..

I have heard of no arc site in Europe that predates a city as large as the ME ones of the time.


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fascinating

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,461
They did so following Greek prejudices as well as the idea that Europe's ancestors came from Asia (an idea that became dogma with William Jones). The Greeks worshipped everything about Egypt and said everything came from Egypt.
That's wrong. See post #318. What kind of "prejudice" is it, anyway, which assigns to origins of its own culture to that of a different civilisation on a different continent?
 
Feb 2017
526
Latin America
The Greeks said everything came from Egypt, and the archeology agrees... or close enough.. definitely no one was building the size of coties and structures they were..

I have heard of no arc site in Europe that predates a city as large as the ME ones of the time.


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Colin Renfrew refutes everything you said about Europe. Archaeology in the Americas has revealed such things like bronze mining being as early as the 5th millennium BCE. Egyptians were definitely not building ships to explore the Pacific like Polynesians were some 10,000 years ago. Really, the archaeological record was made to agree with the Greeks, rather than the other way around, and like I said, the ridiculous heightened rhetoric we find about Egypt simply wouldn't exist without European colonialism.
 
Feb 2017
526
Latin America
That's wrong. See post #318. What kind of "prejudice" is it, anyway, which assigns to origins of its own culture to that of a different civilisation on a different continent?
Again, I already pointed out that Egypt is overrated because of the Greeks. There simply wouldn't be any worship of Egypt, and Mesopotamia too, without European Greeks praising it. The Near East was also considered close enough to Europe anyway by Europeans of the colonial era. Read Hegel, who basically said that "Hither Asia" (everything west of India) is just another extension of Europe. And yes, the Greeks considered Egyptians non-Europeans, but that's not how Europeans of the colonial era saw it, and with William Jones's Aryan theory tried to do as much as they could to prove they were in fact members of the European White race. Hegel for instance said that Hither Asia belongs to the "Caucasian race", as opposed to the "Mongol race" of "Further Asia".
 
Nov 2019
228
Memphis TN
Colin Renfrew refutes everything you said about Europe. Archaeology in the Americas has revealed such things like bronze mining being as early as the 5th millennium BCE. Egyptians were definitely not building ships to explore the Pacific like Polynesians were some 10,000 years ago. Really, the archaeological record was made to agree with the Greeks, rather than the other way around, and like I said, the ridiculous heightened rhetoric we find about Egypt simply wouldn't exist without European colonialism.
The Bronze Age mining is super shady... if I’m right it is not the mainstream consensus and is really only pushed by a couple people..


I’m betting the other historian you mentioned fits that category as well.


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Aug 2018
697
london
there's no nonsense egypt is anthropologically a black colony, only blacks trust in Amon; see Koush, see Ethiopia;
in legend of Perseus and Andromeda it's said Cephee king of ethiopia consult Amon oracle which emphasized ethiopians trust in Amon
besides of this Diodorus of sicily said this:
"It is argued that the Ethiopians are the first of all men, and that the evidence is obvious. First, everyone is pretty much in agreement that they did not come from abroad, and that they were born in the country, we can rightly call them Aboriginal; then it seems obvious to all that the men who live in the South are probably the first to come out of the bosom of the earth. As the heat of the sun dries the wet earth and makes it suitable for the generation of animals, it is likely that the nearest region of the sun was the first populated of living beings. It is also asserted that the Ethiopians first taught men to worship the gods, to offer them sacrifices, to make pomp, sacred solemnities, and other ceremonies, by which men practice divine worship. Hence they are everywhere famous for their piety; and their sacrifices seem to be the most agreeable to divinity. In support of this we have the testimony of the poet almost the oldest and the most admired of the Greeks, who represents us, in his Iliad, Jupiter and the other immortals going to Ethiopia to receive the offerings and feasts that the Ethiopians offer them every year: "Jupiter crossed the ocean yesterday to visit the brave Ethiopians who were preparing a feast for him. All the gods followed him. We note that the Ethiopians have collected from the gods the reward of their piety, never having survived the yoke of any foreign despot. In fact, at all times they have preserved their freedom; and, thanks to their union, they were never subjected by the sovereigns who marched against them, and none of whom succeeded in his enterprise. "

- Diodorus of Sicily, Historical Library, III, 2 [read online [ Wikiwix's cache ]]

"They say, moreover, that most of the Egyptian customs are of Ethiopian origin, as the colonies preserve the traditions of the metropolis; that the respect for kings, considered as gods, the rite of funerals and many other uses, are Ethiopian institutions; finally, that the types of sculpture and the characters of writing are also borrowed from Ethiopians. The Egyptians have two kinds of particular writings, one called vulgar, which is learned by everybody; the other, called sacred, known only to priests, and taught to them from father to son among the secret things. However, the Ethiopians make indifferent use of the one and the other writing. "

- Diodorus of Sicily, Historical Library, III, 3 [read online [ Wikiwix's cache ]
This shows the trust in Amon has gone from the south to north Egypt being influenced by populations coming from south,
and it's true trust in kings considered as sacred ,the rite of funerals are ethiopian institutions, you can see them in Kush and in Axoum
Koushites trust in Amon, according to Andromeda myth Axoumites trust in Amon
Axoumites too do steles as old egyptians
we can deduce religion of Egypt come from ethiopians black people andEgypt is an old black colony

It's the other way round, Nubia was a colony of Egypt.
 
Aug 2018
697
london
Again, I already pointed out that Egypt is overrated because of the Greeks. There simply wouldn't be any worship of Egypt, and Mesopotamia too, without European Greeks praising it. The Near East was also considered close enough to Europe anyway by Europeans of the colonial era. Read Hegel, who basically said that "Hither Asia" (everything west of India) is just another extension of Europe. And yes, the Greeks considered Egyptians non-Europeans, but that's not how Europeans of the colonial era saw it, and with William Jones's Aryan theory tried to do as much as they could to prove they were in fact members of the European White race. Hegel for instance said that Hither Asia belongs to the "Caucasian race", as opposed to the "Mongol race" of "Further Asia".
The concept of the Caucasian race (and its inclusion of near eastern peoples) doesn't come from Hegel so there's no point in mentioning his name here.
 
Aug 2018
697
london
The Greeks said everything came from Egypt, and the archeology agrees... or close enough.. definitely no one was building the size of coties and structures they were..

I have heard of no arc site in Europe that predates a city as large as the ME ones of the time.
The Greeks didn't say everything came from Egypt, and certainly the archaeology does not agree in any way with the notion that everything came from Egypt. And there are plenty of archaeological sites in Europe that predate the Middle Eastern cities.