Why fascists took references and symbolism from eastern philosophies? Also, why paganism?

Nov 2018
91
Russian Federation
#91
In the West, there is really only one God for most people, whether you you think he is real or non existent, and that is the God of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). Most westerners either don't believe in any God, or they believe in the God of the Judeo-Christisn-Islam tradition. Most athiest in the west don't bother attacking the reality Krishna, or Shiva, Kali, etc. The Judeo-Christisngod is the god Nietsche meant. It was a given in the West the other gods didn't exist - hiathiest/agnostics didn't believe in any god, and those who did believe in a good just believed in the God of the Bible and Koran.
so u about judeochristian "god". it never been alive - an artificial construct gathering believer's energy. today pagan Gods waking up better deities deal with
 
Nov 2018
91
Russian Federation
#92
Also, the idea of Buddhism being some especially enlightened and tolerant religion is inane nonsense. Buddhism is full of superstitious nonsense, and has about 600 times the number of Hells that Christianity does. If anything east-Asian countries are less keen on religious belief (faith) in general, this has nothing to do with Buddhism. Mon Buddhism (the Tibetan kind) was a militant feudal ideology that places absolute power and truth in the hands of a monastic warlord. People who make these claims about Buddhism should be deported to 14th century Tibet to live in the agricultural slavery that was the lot of almost everyone, or the military slavery (and enforced celibacy, making homosexual rape extremely common among monks - Buddhism is often less tolerant of sexuality and hedonism than Christianitys fanatic cults) which the facts of Buddhism bear out. Or the conquering, mass-mudering, thieving military despot Ashoka. Whenever normie westerners open their mouth about Buddhism nothing comes out but imbecilic drivel.
another ignorant trying slander what he does not understand. first, main pledge of asian monk is ahimsa or non-violence. had u seen thai monks constantly brooming path ahead trying not to step on insects? that's it. second, buddhism built on transforming sexual energies into spiritual consciousness. there is no catholic perversions like homosexuality or paedophilia all passions absorbed into spirituality. may be reason why Nazi turned to eastern teachings

p.s. Hipparchist's bad carma got worse
 
Last edited:
Oct 2018
654
Adelaide south Australia
#93
Good point about Buddhism.Like christianity and any organised religion, theory and practice vary enormously. Can't go past Tibetan Buddhism for superstitious and nasty. Have never understood why so many people continue to support the theocracy of the 13th Dalai Lama. Ashoka also a good example of selective history.

Asoka is another good example. He was the third ruler of the Maurya empire, which was approximately half the size of the Roman empire at its peak, and I think the largest empire in Indian history. He seems to have ben an utterly ruthless turd until his conversion to Buddhism in 263 bce .Our knowledge of the man after his conversion is limited to his edicts and what seems to be myth. The edicts are interesting taken by themselves, a large number seem to be practical instructions. His moral precepts are terrific, and reflect what are called teachings of the Buddha, coming from perhaps the most basic of the Buddha's {alleged] teachings; "above all, loving kindness". I have no idea to what extent the emperor lived by his own edicts. Legends make all kinds of claims, I have no way of knowing the degree of truth, if any.

Hinduism is worse, but that's getting too far off topic.

The argument about whether the Nazis were fascist is a little contentious .However, they were by no means the same in theory or in practice as far as I can see.


Mussolini invented modern day fascism in 1922, taking the name from the Roman fasces, a bundle of rods surrounding a 2 headed axe head carried by lictors, as a sign the of authority of a magistrate. Probably fair to say the Nazis adopted some ideas from the Italians, such as the legitimacy of political murders. Each had its own take, based on its own country's myths, prejudices and desires.Mussolini had a gaol of restoring the Roman Empire. The Nazis looked back to teutonic myth, and an empire of racially pure Aryans ( a term they seemed to have used rather loosely) The Nazis' antisemitism was their own. The long and short term effects of that policy as it developed into "the final solution of the Jewish question" cannot be overestimated.
 
Nov 2018
101
Idaho
#94
The best books on actual fascism are Stanley Payne's A History of Fascism and Paul Gottfried's Fascism: Career of a Concept. A lot of other books are sensationalist nonsense and demonization which does nothing to actually enlighten people about what fascism was and why it existed, to them it's just a slur like 'heretic!'. Fascism is a somewhat incoherent ideology, being as it is a reactionary and revolutionary (pseudo-revolutionary in many cases) movement, but it does have very definite roots in history. And it certainly wasn't 'being mean' as present day Blue Tribers like to believe.

Some other authors like Zeev Sternhell have made contributions in this field, but I think Stanley Payne gets the best of earlier theorists and improves upon their work.

another ignorant trying slander what he does not understand. first, main pledge of asian monk is ahimsa or non-violence. had u seen thai monks constantly brooming path ahead trying not to step on insects? that's it. second, buddhism built on transforming sexual energies into spiritual consciousness. there is no catholic perversions like homosexuality or paedophilia all passions absorbed into spirituality. may be reason why Nazi turned to eastern teachings

p.s. Hipparchist's bad carma got worse
Fact: Asoka was a conqueror
Fact: Tibet was a slaveocracy ruled over by a military religious caste.
Fact: Karma is a fantasy created by delusional children who can't accept that life isn't fair.

Anyway, I don't argue with people who believe in magic.
The argument about whether the Nazis were fascist is a little contentious .However, they were by no means the same in theory or in practice as far as I can see.
National Socialism is in many ways based on the economic ideas of Freidrich List, the Aryanist pseudoscience of Chamberlain, and the classical national socialist movements that predated the NSDAP in Bohemia. The NSDAP under Hitler was influenced by Fascism, but both its origins, its ideology and its methods were rather different. Mussolini had about 10 people killed for political reasons, we know Hitler was a lot more murderous, for example. Fascism was not a racial ideology, though Mussolini would be considered a 'racist' by today's standards (of course, so would every U.S. president before 1970) it did not inform fascism as a political ideology, which was cultural. After all 'The Doctrine of Fascism' was ghostwritten by the Italian atheist Jew Giovanni Gentile.

Mussolini didn't exactly invent fascism. It is a version of national syndicalism (which goes back to the 19th century, especially in French writers such as Sorel and the Boulangists) which takes on the revolutionary posturing of the Reds along with the exaggerated machismo that came from WW1 military men. In many ways El Duce undermined real fascism, as he certainly never pursued a serious syndicalist economic policy, etc. but instead followed mostly the same plans and techniques of the previous liberal parliamentary government: inflation and war (the invasion of Ethiopia is a plan he inherited from the parliamentarians he replaced, he did not come up with it). Mussolini was probably as much of a con man as he was a dedicated fascism, or at least an egotist - fascism ceased to be a paligenic national sydnicalist revolutionary futurist movement as it had been in the hands of journalists and other radicals; it became 'whatever Mussolini fancies'.

Overall, Fascism was much friendlier to private enterprise than the NSDAP, far less centralized, far less murderous, far less interested in thought control, far less radical. Without its nasty northern neighbor Mussolini may have been more like Franco, abhorred by the left but still recalled fondly by the right and traditionalists. In fact, many Italians today do like Mussolini. Heck, I like Mussolini, although not for political reasons. I just love adventurers, freebooters and gamblers like him, although in many ways (especially his alliance with Hitler) it ended in total disaster both for El Duce and for Nova Roma. As a constitutional anarchist I find most political ideals and systems to be corrupt and hilariously stupid, but exploiting morons is an honorable profession IMO. Thus I find it much easier to like a crypto-Stirnerite like Mussolini than some fanatic cultists like Uncle Adolf.
 
Last edited:
Likes: bboomer

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,652
Vilnius, Lithuania
#96
another ignorant trying slander what he does not understand. first, main pledge of asian monk is ahimsa or non-violence. had u seen thai monks constantly brooming path ahead trying not to step on insects? that's it. second, buddhism built on transforming sexual energies into spiritual consciousness. there is no catholic perversions like homosexuality or paedophilia all passions absorbed into spirituality. may be reason why Nazi turned to eastern teachings

p.s. Hipparchist's bad carma got worse
If I am not mistaken, ahimsa is prevailing in Jainism, not in other religions.
 

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,652
Vilnius, Lithuania
#97
Fact: Karma is a fantasy created by delusional children who can't accept that life isn't fair.
So is Christian afterlife and God`s judgement. Modern secular psychology borrowed many things from Christianity such as importance of inner self and amorphous 'spirituality', like human beings are independent from outer environment.
 
Nov 2018
101
Idaho
#98
So is Christian afterlife and God`s judgement. Modern secular psychology borrowed many things from Christianity such as importance of inner self and amorphous 'spirituality', like human beings are independent from outer environment.
I absolutely agree. I am an existential nihilist. I think we're just animals, the world is pointless, and any meaning comes solely from our subjective projection of it onto our surroundings. When I heap calumnies on Buddhism I do not mean to exclude Jesusism, just as when I say democracy is a joke system of rule I do not thereby endorse monarchy or something.

Unlike the Fedorists I do not blame religion for everything, I think 'bad' stuff that comes out of religion is simply a side effect of people being stupid. I like tall buildings and cool statues and comic book stories about thunder gods fighting giant snakes as much as any autistic nerd. I just find it ridiculous when people think I should take it seriously. I certainly do not care for Sunni Islam or imperialism but the Red Fort at Delhi is freaking badass and I want one. I can separate the wheat from the chaff on this.
 

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,652
Vilnius, Lithuania
#99
I absolutely agree. I am an existential nihilist. I think we're just animals, the world is pointless, and any meaning comes solely from our subjective projection of it onto our surroundings. When I heap calumnies on Buddhism I do not mean to exclude Jesusism, just as when I say democracy is a joke system of rule I do not thereby endorse monarchy or something.
Have you read "Straw dogs" by John Gray?
 
Nov 2018
101
Idaho
Have you read "Straw dogs" by John Gray?
Nope, the name is vaguely familiar. In this vein I tend to like St. Max Stirner's The Ego and Its Own, Walter Sinnot-Armstrong's Moral Skepticisms, the short-and-punchy The Myth of Natural Rights by L. A. Rollins, and Richard Joyce's The Myth of Morality. I am also rather fond of Georges Palante, who wrote essays such as 'Misanthropic Pessimism'.
 

Similar History Discussions